corky3

security would only keep you from turning on things like your radio if the battery was disconnected. if its the original radio. but you might look at the manual and see. I can check mine and check if there are any other security things that might keep it from starting.

Sw4y1313

Thanks dude i really appreciate it. We cannot seem to get the thing to spark at all. My buddy nick whos been building hondas(hes no ricer tho) for years and years came to help me out and was unable to get the plugs to spark. We even grounded the plug out to the bolt labelled ground on the driverside strut tower and still no spark. Wiring is the last thing it could possibly be, or the ECM.

b_faulk75

Hey dude, don't go throwing an ecm at it, that's probably not the problem. Why did you replace the crank sensor? If the car ran when you took it apart, then it will almost definitly come to be something you have done along the way that is not letting it run. MAYBE you got a defective crank sensor. They can be tested but i can't remeber the exact procedure, i think you can test them with a multimeter. Also if you can find someone with a SCAN TOOL, that would be the best way, you can look at things like crank signal, and codes and so forth, may lead you to the problem. Definitly not a good a idea to throw parts at it, like the ICM, you will end up wasting alot of money this way. Also i think the ECM security feature will only disable fuel, but normally you would have a security lamp flashing if that is the problem..

07cobaltguy

correct me if im wrong but if you change the crank sensor, you have to do a crank sensor relearn on the ECM, so id try putting ur old sensor back in.

shadowfaxss

iTrader: (3)

I would say verify you have fuel by hooking up a pressure gauge and making sure it is within spec. You can have fuel but it may not be the correct pressure or volume.
The next step would be to verify spark with and STA- plug tester or check with a scan tool. You can see a voltage change on a crank sensor with a mutlimeter but that will not indicate if the sensor is working correctly. It could be a multitude of things. I had one similar on my 2002 GAGT. Went through every diagnostic test (found a bad FPR) and found the root cause to be the Security Control Module. Best thing to do is buy a maintenance manual and follow the diagnostic tests. Good Luck!!

Maven

iTrader: (1)

No spark:
Make sure youve got a known good crank sensor.

Make sure the crank sensor wires arent cut or damaged.

If you replaced your crank, make sure it HAS a reluctor wheel.

Make sure the little black interconnector is installed between your new ICM and the coil.

Make sure youve got a good grond at the ICM connector, location "E" black wire.

Make sure G105(ground connection) is bolted clean and tight to the transmission.(and all other ground wires that bolt to engine or trans)

If youre getting injector pulses and semlling fuel that tells us the fuse for the ICM is good, but make sure there is power at the ICM connector, location "A" pink/white wire

Sw4y1313

I bought a replacement block that had a full bottom end, but had a blown ringland on 1 of the pistons. the crank was not touched and the crank sensor was still there. I bought a new one just incase, so theres a brand new one in there. every connector on my harness had no wires pulled, frayed, or cut. they all seemed to look good and all connected properly.

where is the ground on the tranny, so I can verify that its in correctly because I honestly don't remember connecting one. I do know theres a ground that goes from the driverside front frame to the block right above the starter on the same side where the tranny bolts in. I verified that from my gf's ion. theres also another connector that goes right to the block that is connected to the wiring harness. it connects to the block right above the starter but on the fronr, not the side like the main ground I just mentioned.

I should put the old crank sensor from my old block back in or the one that came with this block to test the new one. ill try that first today but I believe I gotta remove the intake mani. oh well.

ill also check the power to the ICM today as well. any idea what voltage it should read?

Maven

iTrader: (1)

Youll be looking for either a little(1" square approx) black box with a ring terminal on it, or just a wire(or small bundle of wires) with a ring terminal on it. It should be coming out of the harness near the cooling fan connections.

Also make sure youve got the braided ground strap that goes from the valve cover to the head installed.


Voltage should be within about .5 volts of battery voltage.

b_faulk75

Try installing your original crank sensor and see what happens.Also the icm should have 12V and 5v reference i believe. Not sure the wire color. See if you can get the diagnostic flow chart for a no start condition from someone that has access to dealer world. That would be the best way to diag this problem.

Sw4y1313

this black box u speak of. is it round, with about 6 inches of black cable, then has 2 wires coming out to a ccnnector? that I have bolted to the block just like on my gf's ion.

the other thick ground wire comes from the chassis near the radiator and goes up to just above the starter on the tranny side along with another small terminal with about 3 small wires coming from the wiring harness.

HunterKiller89

iTrader: (1)

incase any of the wires look like this
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/5165055...ock_Sensor.jpg
thats not a ground wire. I thought it was a ground wire when i did my install, but thats what the knock sensor looks like. Just throwin it out there incase u didnt know

Maven

iTrader: (1)

No the round one youre talking about is most likely the knock sensor.

The wire I want you to look for isnt thick. its not battery cable sized. its a couple wires taped together, maybe about the size of a phone cord, no bigger than a USB cable.

Go to the radiator fan, grab the connector for the fan motor closest to drivers side of car, now follow that wire(about 1/2" black wire loom) after about 6-10" there will be the smaller phone/USB sized wires that come out of the bigger wire loom, follow these smaller wires, after about 6-10" you should come to the end of it, and it should have a ring terminal on it. This needs to be botled on to the same place as the big thick cable that goes from the engine/trans to the frame under the drivers headlight.

Sw4y1313

Haha ok that makes sense that the round thing is the knock sensor. I cant believe i didnt put that together in my head already. I appreciate that.

Alright maven, i just got home from work, im goin out to check it now. im almost 99% positive i know exactly what ur talkin about and the little phoe cable thing your talkin about is connected at the same point as the thick cable that goes to the chassis under the headlight. next post ill have a picture of it.

Ok heres how i had it before:



What i did since it wasnt very tight is i moved them together so they are both right against the tranny(which i didnt realize that was the tranny the whole time ) Its now a lot tighter then it was when they were seperated. But they were seperated on my gf's ion and i believe when i took it apart. Unfortunately i had good pictures of everything but my last phone broke and i lost them all.

aveoturbo

susbscribed. just wanna watch this thread

Sw4y1313

Attempted to verify power to the ICM by hooking up my volt meter on DC current touching one end to the wire connector labeled A on the previous page and the ground position labeled on the driver side strut tower and saw no change in voltage. i dont think im getting enough contact tho because im trying it on my own and just resting the 2 ends on each connection and trying to start it with the meter sitting on the windshield. i may have to wait for my roommate to come home

Well my buddy Ian came over to help out. We checked all the fuses using the Ohms setting on my volt meter, and all seem to be fine. But after that now she wont even turn over!! She clicks and thats it. WTF?!? We disconnected the battery for a bit to see if that resets it or something.

Oh.. and there is 12v going to the power and 5v going to all the other wires on the ICM clip.

tru2nrtt777

iTrader: (1)

Clicks? is the battery dead after trying to start it so much?

Sw4y1313

Nope its got enough because it turned over minutes before we tested the resistance on the fuses. You just turn the key, the lights turn off and it does nothing.

HunterKiller89

iTrader: (1)

it def sounds dead tho...it clicks when the battery is dead....still enough power for the radio/headlishgt/everything else, but not enough to get that starter to turn. Its also the most likely problem simply because youve been running the starter a lot trying to get the engine to start and since it hasnt started yet the alternator cant recharge the battery. Just get a jump from someone else....it cant hurt after all..

Sw4y1313

it acts like if you try to start it without pushing in the clutch. because it does the same thing if you push it in or not. Doesnt attempt to turn over or anything. Its not the battery trust me

Jn2

iTrader: (1)

sorry...dont know if you have tried,, but a good way to check spark...stick a screwdriver inside the spark boots and crank it :p that or u can be a lil bitch and get the tool used for testing :p check IGN fuse under hood, and possible bad icm, althought when mine was bad i still got it running, ran on 2 cylinders, but it ran

Maven

iTrader: (1)

Take your voltmeter and measure the voltage at the battery. It should be at least 12.65 volts, if its not...charge the battery.

When testing for power at the ICM connector, put the meter on VOLTS, put one end on a clean ground(sand a little spot on the trans or head and test there) then touch the positive lead to the connector, with key ON(no need to crank) you should have battery voltage. No switch the leads, put the positive lead onto the positive post in the fues block, and put the negative lead on the ground at ICM connector. you should again have very close to battery voltage

What you really want to test with though is a test light that uses a light bulb(NOT LEDS or neon) and do the same exact tests as you just did with the meter. This way you know that wires can carry amperage not just voltage. I use a turn signal bulb as a tester. All you need to do is go the junk yard or parts store and get a turnsignal harness. You put a bulb in it, and then crimp on some terminal to the ends of the wires, and VOILA youve got a high power test light. This is perfect for testing almost any circuit that you need to know if its carrying power, or has enough power to support XXXX. The bulb will draw about 2.5-3 amps, just enough to test just about anything. It also makes a perfect short finder. It'll look something like this:


The only thing is that you need to be sure you NEVER test airbag systems/circuits with it, and you dont test LIVE computers circuio5ts unless youre sure of what youre doing.

Sw4y1313

I did everything you mentioned on the ICM connector and it reads correctly. so does that mean im getting spark or could there still possibly be an issue there? I tested my grounds and they are all good as well. but now somehow my clutch start switch isn't working allowing the car to turn over. theres gotta be a short somewhere between either the crank sensor and ECM, clutch and ECM, ICM and ECM or all 3.

so using ur test light, I need to test the clutch switch, ICM power and other wires, and possibly crank sensor right? I was talkin to my dad and he wanted me to get a test light too. ill see if I can make one of these.

Maven

iTrader: (1)

Well if the ICM connector tests ok with the voltmeter its time to test it with the test light.
Test it the same way as you did/I explained with the voltmeter. The bulb should light at full brilliance.

If you can get the car to turn over, crank it and watch the tach, it should go up to about 200rpm, if it DOESNT youve got a crank sensor/wires/ecm problem. At that point youll need to swap the crank sensor and check the wires.

No crank:

Check the 30a CRANK fuse under the hood. check for power at the fuse, dont jam anything in fuse block, use meter(or better yet your newly made testlight!) and test on the little nubs on back of fuse, should have battery voltage on both nubs of fuse.

Check the 10a HVAC/CLSTR/BTSI fuse in the BCM on the right side of center console. It should have power on both nubs of fuse with key in RUN and CRANK positions.

If both fuses are good and have power take out the CRANK relay and put one of the other relays in its place(should be big gray ones with 3064 on them, its easy to tell which ones are the same)

If cranks now, you need a new relay, if no crank, go under the dash and disconnect the Clutch Start Switch. There are TWO switches on the clutch pedal, both have 2 wires. You want the one with a PINK wire and a YELLOW wire. The PINK wire should have battery voltage with the key in RUN or CRANK.

To bypass this switch just connect the two wires together with a little jumper. If the car now cranks, you need a switch. If it doesnt you need to go under the hood, clip a jumper wire(preferably a remorte start switch, you might be able to borrow one from parts store) to the small terminal on the starter(ONE WITH PURPLE WIRE) And then touch the other end of wire(or switch) to the POSITIVE post on the fuse block. Engine should crank, if it doesnt check connections at starter and battery. Check battery state of charge, if all ok you need a starter.

If it cranks when you jumper the starter solenoid in the above step but not when doing it any other way, the most likely cause is an ignition switch or ECM. But I would highly recommend professional diagnosis if all of these steps lead you to that conclusion.

jlong3382

Go back to the basics, What does a gasoline engine need to run:

1) air
2) fuel
3) spark
4) THEY ALL HAVE TO BE THERE AT THE SAME TIME



It's #4 thats a PITA!

Sw4y1313

son of beach! that's exactly what it was doing yesterday PRIOR to my clutch start switch issue. the tach would not move but every 2 turns or so it would jump up for a sec after you stopped cranking it. ill be switching out the sensor today. I shouldn't leak too much oil since theres no oil pressure right?