The engine is in but wont fire up
10-21-2008, 07:36 PM
#52
son of beach! that's exactly what it was doing yesterday PRIOR to my clutch start switch issue. the tach would not move but every 2 turns or so it would jump up for a sec after you stopped cranking it. ill be switching out the sensor today. I shouldn't leak too much oil since theres no oil pressure right?
10-22-2008, 03:25 PM
#54
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maven ill test all that stuff you mentioned tonight when I get off work.
man I wish it was a spark plug issue!
I really hope my crank sensor is just bad and my old one works. we shall see tonight!
man I wish it was a spark plug issue!
I really hope my crank sensor is just bad and my old one works. we shall see tonight!
10-22-2008, 04:42 PM
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haha good luck....all the sensors and crap in cars it could be something rediculously small...
10-22-2008, 04:49 PM
#56
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he could have his timing off and it will have the valves open a tad and never make compression and never start this is why i suggested comp test earlier in the thread then we learned it was a spark issue...
10-22-2008, 06:39 PM
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You don't by chance have an aftermarket remote start system do you? I've seen those things cause major headaches.
If possible, i would still recomend getting a friend or someone with a scan tool, that would atleast help to narrow down some of you problems, the best would be an actual scan tool so you can see data and not just pull codes, but a code reader would help to get you started.
One more thing, if you even slighly suspect the battery, try jump starting it and see what happens.
10-22-2008, 11:05 PM
#58
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Well if the ICM connector tests ok with the voltmeter its time to test it with the test light.
Test it the same way as you did/I explained with the voltmeter. The bulb should light at full brilliance.
If you can get the car to turn over, crank it and watch the tach, it should go up to about 200rpm, if it DOESNT youve got a crank sensor/wires/ecm problem. At that point youll need to swap the crank sensor and check the wires.
No crank:
Check the 30a CRANK fuse under the hood. check for power at the fuse, dont jam anything in fuse block, use meter(or better yet your newly made testlight!) and test on the little nubs on back of fuse, should have battery voltage on both nubs of fuse.
Check the 10a HVAC/CLSTR/BTSI fuse in the BCM on the right side of center console. It should have power on both nubs of fuse with key in RUN and CRANK positions.
If both fuses are good and have power take out the CRANK relay and put one of the other relays in its place(should be big gray ones with 3064 on them, its easy to tell which ones are the same)
If cranks now, you need a new relay, if no crank, go under the dash and disconnect the Clutch Start Switch. There are TWO switches on the clutch pedal, both have 2 wires. You want the one with a PINK wire and a YELLOW wire. The PINK wire should have battery voltage with the key in RUN or CRANK.
To bypass this switch just connect the two wires together with a little jumper. If the car now cranks, you need a switch. If it doesnt you need to go under the hood, clip a jumper wire(preferably a remorte start switch, you might be able to borrow one from parts store) to the small terminal on the starter(ONE WITH PURPLE WIRE) And then touch the other end of wire(or switch) to the POSITIVE post on the fuse block. Engine should crank, if it doesnt check connections at starter and battery. Check battery state of charge, if all ok you need a starter.
If it cranks when you jumper the starter solenoid in the above step but not when doing it any other way, the most likely cause is an ignition switch or ECM. But I would highly recommend professional diagnosis if all of these steps lead you to that conclusion.
Test it the same way as you did/I explained with the voltmeter. The bulb should light at full brilliance.
If you can get the car to turn over, crank it and watch the tach, it should go up to about 200rpm, if it DOESNT youve got a crank sensor/wires/ecm problem. At that point youll need to swap the crank sensor and check the wires.
No crank:
Check the 30a CRANK fuse under the hood. check for power at the fuse, dont jam anything in fuse block, use meter(or better yet your newly made testlight!) and test on the little nubs on back of fuse, should have battery voltage on both nubs of fuse.
Check the 10a HVAC/CLSTR/BTSI fuse in the BCM on the right side of center console. It should have power on both nubs of fuse with key in RUN and CRANK positions.
If both fuses are good and have power take out the CRANK relay and put one of the other relays in its place(should be big gray ones with 3064 on them, its easy to tell which ones are the same)
If cranks now, you need a new relay, if no crank, go under the dash and disconnect the Clutch Start Switch. There are TWO switches on the clutch pedal, both have 2 wires. You want the one with a PINK wire and a YELLOW wire. The PINK wire should have battery voltage with the key in RUN or CRANK.
To bypass this switch just connect the two wires together with a little jumper. If the car now cranks, you need a switch. If it doesnt you need to go under the hood, clip a jumper wire(preferably a remorte start switch, you might be able to borrow one from parts store) to the small terminal on the starter(ONE WITH PURPLE WIRE) And then touch the other end of wire(or switch) to the POSITIVE post on the fuse block. Engine should crank, if it doesnt check connections at starter and battery. Check battery state of charge, if all ok you need a starter.
If it cranks when you jumper the starter solenoid in the above step but not when doing it any other way, the most likely cause is an ignition switch or ECM. But I would highly recommend professional diagnosis if all of these steps lead you to that conclusion.
so we finally got it to crank again. turns out that the 30a crank fuse was bad. dont know why it still had resistance on it but when we swaped it, the car started to crank again. still no fire though. now were changing out the crank sensor in hopes that will fix the problem. maven, when its cranking, we still dont have any tach response. it doesnt jump to 200 like you said, if we change the crank sensor out and still no luck, whats next?
Heres a quick video of it trying to start with the other crank sensor. It does the same exact thing:
View My Video
Last edited by Sw4y1313; 10-23-2008 at 12:12 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
10-23-2008, 09:34 AM
#59
Make sure the terminals in the crank sensor connector arent spread open or otherwise damaged.
Make sure the pins in the sensor arent damaged.
Follow the wires from the sensor(purple and yellow) and see if they are damaged.
Disconnect the battery. Disconnect and carefully reconnect the LARGE connector on the engine control module.
If the engine still wont start, or the tach still doesnt move when you crank. Youre gonna need some special equiptment to safely test. Do this first. lemme know whats up
Make sure the pins in the sensor arent damaged.
Follow the wires from the sensor(purple and yellow) and see if they are damaged.
Disconnect the battery. Disconnect and carefully reconnect the LARGE connector on the engine control module.
If the engine still wont start, or the tach still doesnt move when you crank. Youre gonna need some special equiptment to safely test. Do this first. lemme know whats up
10-23-2008, 01:11 PM
#60
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the sensor looks good. we tested the resistance through it and it comes up good, or so we hope. theres a clip/piece that goes between the wiring harness and the crank sensor. the ends on aech side are really twisted up and one side is bent real bad. we tried testing the ohms on each wire but could only get one wire to show anything. im hoping its just that piece. ill post a picture of it when I get home at about 430 mnt. time. you think if one of the wires is crushed and bent to the side hard enough that it could be causing the problem? I may take that piece off my gf's car and see if I get her to start. she won't be home till about 8pm tho.
10-23-2008, 01:48 PM
#61
the sensor looks good. we tested the resistance through it and it comes up good, or so we hope. theres a clip/piece that goes between the wiring harness and the crank sensor. the ends on aech side are really twisted up and one side is bent real bad. we tried testing the ohms on each wire but could only get one wire to show anything. im hoping its just that piece. ill post a picture of it when I get home at about 430 mnt. time. you think if one of the wires is crushed and bent to the side hard enough that it could be causing the problem? I may take that piece off my gf's car and see if I get her to start. she won't be home till about 8pm tho.
That harness is PN 10394247 and should be like $8 online and like $12 at dealer.
If youre dealer or a local GM parts house doesnt haave it in stock its gonna need to be shipped from Lansing, MI
10-23-2008, 04:26 PM
#64
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yeah we switched the fuse with the secondary cooling fan fuse just to test and it started cranking. all that after removing the clutch switch and trying to bypass that lol. it was a fun night tho. I just talked to my gf and shes cool with me using her CKP connector to test. if it works im gonna be the happiest **** on the planet... it seriously looks tweaked enough to where id expect it to act faulty. one side twisted and the other bent right that the end of the clip where the wires are exposed.
10-24-2008, 12:37 AM
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well her car doesnt have that extension piece, her harness is just pulled directly over to the sensor. should i try doing that or do i NEED that extension piece? i guess i could go buy one from the dealer but i am kinda sick of spending money for things i dont need ya know?
10-24-2008, 08:13 AM
#70
well her car doesnt have that extension piece, her harness is just pulled directly over to the sensor. should i try doing that or do i NEED that extension piece? i guess i could go buy one from the dealer but i am kinda sick of spending money for things i dont need ya know?
10-25-2008, 07:56 PM
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maven, on the diagram for the ICM connector, the bottom right corner wire is only reading .086 volts when the rest are reading 5v and the top right power is reading 12v. could that be an issue? I just bypassed that extension piece for the crank sensor and its still not starting. we tested all fuses inside the car as well and they are all good.
10-25-2008, 08:49 PM
#72
maven, on the diagram for the ICM connector, the bottom right corner wire is only reading .086 volts when the rest are reading 5v and the top right power is reading 12v. could that be an issue? I just bypassed that extension piece for the crank sensor and its still not starting. we tested all fuses inside the car as well and they are all good.
Do you have a tach now?
10-25-2008, 09:08 PM
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Well the tach moves sometimes, but it doesnt go up to 200rpms when trying to crank. im still not getting any spark when turning it over either.
If you notice in the video, when i go to crank it over, the power to the whole console and lights go off. Is that normal? The whole console goes off so how am i supposed to see rpms go up?
If you notice in the video, when i go to crank it over, the power to the whole console and lights go off. Is that normal? The whole console goes off so how am i supposed to see rpms go up?
10-25-2008, 09:11 PM
#74
It moves sometimes? It should move everytime you crank it. when you crank it the tach shold go up to approx 200 while cranking. If its doesnt go up all the time, or if goes up and then drops down while cranking youve still got a crank sensor/wiring/ecm issue.
And just out of curiosity. Did you ever fully charge your battery fully since youve been testing?
And just out of curiosity. Did you ever fully charge your battery fully since youve been testing?
10-25-2008, 09:14 PM
#75
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Yeah, it was fully charged when i bought it. I also jumped it multiple times during the week and last weekend when trying to troubleshoot this issue. Its not getting ANY spark.
If you notice in the video, when i go to crank it over, the power to the whole console and lights go off. Is that normal? The whole console goes off so how am i supposed to see rpms go up? Or is that just the lights. Its been so long since i've driven the car i cant remember anymore.
If you notice in the video, when i go to crank it over, the power to the whole console and lights go off. Is that normal? The whole console goes off so how am i supposed to see rpms go up? Or is that just the lights. Its been so long since i've driven the car i cant remember anymore.