The Garrett SEMA L61 Turbo kit
11-08-2006, 05:28 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by PayJ
Yea Trannys should hold up no problem just rememeber this is a new peice of hardware which means a nice break in time will be needed to allow parts to feel what forced induction feels like. no fun until 3000 miles after you install...at 1000 miles you should be rev no higher than 2500rpm...2000miles 4000rpm and 3000 ret her rip...this is a very important step in any turbo setup. During this time you will see if there is any boost leaks, that manifold looks caste iron so you will see the coloration probally REDness if run your car for a long time which means you have to get it retuned because you are running too hot. I would love to see what the kit looks like off the block. The first upgrade you would want is the wastegate upgrade to hold boost longer till redline second mod is to port the exaust outlets. this will allow more gas to spool your turbo and boost quicker in the low rpm level. That does look like a nice size turbo, but remember there are alot of aftermerket internals for our engines. and you can always upgrade the turbo. but the only problem is when you upgrade a turbo it usually gets bigger and im still worried about the clearence issue. Third upgrade will soon be the Downpipe. I would like a downpipe similar to the srt4. It is a downpipe with an electronical flange opening which allows for the exaust to dump right after the manifold. No matter what people tell you this is the ideal setup for a turbo. The quicker the exaust leaves the block the better. The only problem with this setup your car turns into a tractor with the open flange but thats why you can close the flange. This is all controlled by a switch that is mounted in your car after the instalation is complete. Im actually really excited about this kit. I was turning into one of those people that were say "if i see another turbo 2.2 thread im going to shoot my self in the *****." But atleast this kit seems to have some evidence of future production. Did we get any specs on that turbo yet?
For the rest of you, argue over what part of your tranny is going to blow first on a turbo setup you'll probably never own. Christ.
11-08-2006, 05:33 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by rallyyellow06
The clutch packs can hold the power. The Torque Converter needs to be upgraded because that is the first thing to fail in this case. Our Auto Tranny's are damn near bullet proof.
This is a bullet proof trans.
http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersou...ansmission.pdf
Heavy Duty Trans > Your Trans
That is all
/unsubscribe
11-08-2006, 06:04 PM
#53
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So is it the manual or the auto trans that will not be able to handle the power for very long or both? From what i hear the kit should actually be available very soon. Garrett employees told me November when I was at NOPI in Norwalk OH but there is no tuning out yet. They claimed the kit would include tuning equipment but I have seen no proof of that as well. The price online is saying $2899 + S&H so your looking at 3G easy that you will need to save. With all this power and all the potential upgrades after a turbo kit is installed for more power I would also save for internals. I don't know all the specs of internals and when they go out but I know the first thing to break is the connecting rods at 250HP so if your gonna be installing a turbo I would look at internals as well and do everything at once. That what i plan to do if I can ever afford it lol. My gf wants a ring, we want to get a house, wedding, honeymoon, **** and by then I'll prolly be having kids so Im gonna need a very good job or save for the next 10 years to afford this lol.
11-08-2006, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SS_SC_Cobalt
umm, turbos are hard mounted to the engine with the manifold and a brace..so why would you worry about the turbo hitting the engine
11-08-2006, 06:35 PM
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hmm ideas ideas i already have one for the piping over the valve covers lol and ill prolly do internals mayb spring to get prepped for the release of that. but im thinkin pistons.connecting rods,values,head gasket,head studs,cams for forced induction,and adj cam gears. noh and to solve ur hitting the firewall thing if ur that worried, torque damper for the 2.2 and poly mounts which are being desighned for the 2.2 right now. that would keep ur engine from moving.
11-08-2006, 06:53 PM
#58
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Why change out any engine internals just to run these turbo kits that get released? Companys wouldn't sell too many kits if they require costly engine rebuilds just to use safely. Reputable companys will design a kit that can be used safely and efficiently on stock motors. The only exception being when you buy other parts and increase you boost lvl. This kit and probably any other kits that get released for the 2.2l cobalt probably won't push the motor near or passed it's stock threshold, wich GM rates at something around 250hp. If your stock clutch isn't slipping, you don't need internals yet 
I just don't want to see people building thier engine up in anticipation of big HP only to not get it. Get the kit first and break it in, tune it up and work out all the bugs before deciding to upgrade engine internals.
I just don't want to see people building thier engine up in anticipation of big HP only to not get it. Get the kit first and break it in, tune it up and work out all the bugs before deciding to upgrade engine internals.
11-08-2006, 06:54 PM
#59
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Concerning the Automatic trans, the 205 ft/lbs of ENGINE torque input listed separately from the 325 ft/lbs of GEARBOX torque. One of the weak links in the 205 number is the torque converter. The 4T45E is used on Epsilon platform cars using v-6 engines. It will be fine. In fact, it's numbers stock are higher then the manual trans max input torque is listed.
11-08-2006, 07:08 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by jonnymerk
Why change out any engine internals just to run these turbo kits that get released? Companys wouldn't sell too many kits if they require costly engine rebuilds just to use safely. Reputable companys will design a kit that can be used safely and efficiently on stock motors. The only exception being when you buy other parts and increase you boost lvl. This kit and probably any other kits that get released for the 2.2l cobalt probably won't push the motor near or passed it's stock threshold, wich GM rates at something around 250hp. If your stock clutch isn't slipping, you don't need internals yet
I just don't want to see people building thier engine up in anticipation of big HP only to not get it. Get the kit first and break it in, tune it up and work out all the bugs before deciding to upgrade engine internals.
I just don't want to see people building thier engine up in anticipation of big HP only to not get it. Get the kit first and break it in, tune it up and work out all the bugs before deciding to upgrade engine internals.
11-08-2006, 07:28 PM
#61
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well i know that i can make 200 horse on stock internal like there saying, but even leaving it at 7psi with all the internals done u could be makin up too say 250 horse on 7psi instead of just 200. and you always have the option to boost more if u wanna. the pistons im lookin at would let me do 32 if i wanted to, but that means o-ringing the pistons and head studs too. but the way i see it ide like to have it there for when i wanna put more psi into the engine. torque converter good idea for me thanks.
11-08-2006, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Halfcent
Concerning the Automatic trans, the 205 ft/lbs of ENGINE torque input listed separately from the 325 ft/lbs of GEARBOX torque. One of the weak links in the 205 number is the torque converter. The 4T45E is used on Epsilon platform cars using v-6 engines. It will be fine. In fact, it's numbers stock are higher then the manual trans max input torque is listed.
11-08-2006, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Halfcent
Concerning the Automatic trans, the 205 ft/lbs of ENGINE torque input listed separately from the 325 ft/lbs of GEARBOX torque. One of the weak links in the 205 number is the torque converter. The 4T45E is used on Epsilon platform cars using v-6 engines. It will be fine. In fact, it's numbers stock are higher then the manual trans max input torque is listed.
Yes I will agree with the nature the car will handle it but as for most people who just want the car to go fast they overlook the actual figures that are presented to them and look to figure head people to pull the trigger and say yes this will be fine when infact it will not be.
Maybe right now it will but will it in a week, a month, a year? You also really think those puny axles connected to the drive train will handle the brute force of a car doing a 3k-4k RPM drop? Doubt it. Thats what these people are going to do. It says on one of the intros of the build book that the trans cannot essentially power over 250whp.
11-08-2006, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Halfcent
Concerning the Automatic trans, the 205 ft/lbs of ENGINE torque input listed separately from the 325 ft/lbs of GEARBOX torque. One of the weak links in the 205 number is the torque converter. The 4T45E is used on Epsilon platform cars using v-6 engines. It will be fine. In fact, it's numbers stock are higher then the manual trans max input torque is listed.
The 205 number is rated engine input the transmission can handle before it over heats and fluid begins to break down on a stock cooling system.
Gearbox torque is the mechanical limit of the physical components, including the torque converter.
11-08-2006, 08:09 PM
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For those of you who asked what type of turbo is being used, Garrett states its a GT2860RS. There have already been at least 3 threads devoted to this kit already:
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/forced-induction-50/garrett-gearhead-letter-i-got-today-about-turbo-kit-2-2-a-36576/
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/forced-induction-50/garrett-turbo-kit-%2Apics-27856/
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-2l-l61-performance-tech-45/turbo-garrett-35499/
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/forced-induction-50/garrett-gearhead-letter-i-got-today-about-turbo-kit-2-2-a-36576/
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/forced-induction-50/garrett-turbo-kit-%2Apics-27856/
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-2l-l61-performance-tech-45/turbo-garrett-35499/
11-08-2006, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Witt
The 205 number is rated engine input the transmission can handle before it over heats and fluid begins to break down on a stock cooling system.
One fried tranny! If your going to beat the **** out of a stock trans setup best get a trans cooler and temp reader before **** hits the fan. Mechanical parts can go anytime before 325 Mechanical limit.
Torque Converter should be the LAST thing that breaks.
11-08-2006, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Halfcent
I got an email today from Kyle Snyder with Garrett Turbo. He sent me the SEMA photos of the Garrett kit for the L61 and a PDF with stats.
Kyle Snyder
Honeywell Turbo Technologies
Garrett Independent Aftermarket (IAM)
3201 West Lomita Boulevard
Torrance, California 90505
www.turbobygarrett.com
The PDF document detailed the items in each kit, which was really just a complete kits, and then few parts for people that wanted to use any of their own parts, and a Dyno graph. I'll try to convert the PDF to a picture later this week. The Dyno was at 7psi, had a peak torque of 230 at about 3500 RPM and peak HP of 200 at 5000 RPM.
These picture are obviously just an engine stand mock up. I would have liked to have seen an in-car installation. But it's something.
Kyle Snyder
Honeywell Turbo Technologies
Garrett Independent Aftermarket (IAM)
3201 West Lomita Boulevard
Torrance, California 90505
www.turbobygarrett.com
The PDF document detailed the items in each kit, which was really just a complete kits, and then few parts for people that wanted to use any of their own parts, and a Dyno graph. I'll try to convert the PDF to a picture later this week. The Dyno was at 7psi, had a peak torque of 230 at about 3500 RPM and peak HP of 200 at 5000 RPM.
These picture are obviously just an engine stand mock up. I would have liked to have seen an in-car installation. But it's something.
11-08-2006, 09:08 PM
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your tranny will be moving at the same speed as it always is...it will just be getting to the speed quicker(if that makes sense). buy a tranny temp gauge and watch the temp when it getts to hott turn off the car and let it rest. under normal driving conditions(no boost made)everything will be fine. youw ill still be in your 145hp car. but when you go to the track make a pass and let the car rest. check your fluid levels. and you should be alright. after all you did buy a automatic...auto=more moving parts= more problems that could eventually happen. I have never gotten under neath my car yet but the only probelm that could happen first is if you pop a few CV shafts. i guessing one axel is around a inch in diameter. but then again i boubt that any aftermarket fab companies are making our axels any beefy. The real truth is that we dont know. We dont know if this kit will produce enough power to break axels, blow trannys, or throw rods. The only thing we can do is prepare for the worse. That is why you want to build your motor before a large mod like this. You want them new parts to feel what forced induction feels like. Let me just say this...Building a engine before a turbo is a whole lot easier to do than fixing a hole in your block from a connecting rod shooting out of it.
11-08-2006, 09:13 PM
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yea let me just say that is the dumbest place to put the wastegate. You tune your boost through the wastegate first and then fine tune boost through a boost controller. I see many burns in my future. It would be awesome if they would mount the wastegate on top the turbo.but then that would result in a totally new manifold. damn such a simple detail should have been looked at a little more.
11-08-2006, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by PayJ
yea let me just say that is the dumbest place to put the wastegate. You tune your boost through the wastegate first and then fine tune boost through a boost controller. I see many burns in my future. It would be awesome if they would mount the wastegate on top the turbo.but then that would result in a totally new manifold. damn such a simple detail should have been looked at a little more.
11-08-2006, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Halfcent
Concerning the Automatic trans, the 205 ft/lbs of ENGINE torque input listed separately from the 325 ft/lbs of GEARBOX torque. One of the weak links in the 205 number is the torque converter. The 4T45E is used on Epsilon platform cars using v-6 engines. It will be fine. In fact, it's numbers stock are higher then the manual trans max input torque is listed.
Yea, thanks to everyone saying "owned" or that I'm an idiot or whatever. The simple fact is the Torque Converter is the only thing you will need to worry about tranny wise that will break. Dexron III is more than capable to handle heat. And if you were to use the Auto in this applications and got worried about it then all you need to do is install a Tranny Cooler and maybe synthetic tranny fluid.
I now for see this thread as nothing but trash talking over whos right so i'll check back after a
11-08-2006, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rallyyellow06
Yea, thanks to everyone saying "owned" or that I'm an idiot or whatever. The simple fact is the Torque Converter is the only thing you will need to worry about tranny wise that will break. Dexron III is more than capable to handle heat. And if you were to use the Auto in this applications and got worried about it then all you need to do is install a Tranny Cooler and maybe synthetic tranny fluid.
I now for see this thread as nothing but trash talking over whos right so i'll check back after a
I now for see this thread as nothing but trash talking over whos right so i'll check back after a
11-08-2006, 09:46 PM
#75
I'm old school
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Originally Posted by sneaky
Amusing you put the gearbox torque on here. Although they might rate it for 325 ft/lbs you don't want to over stress the tran for an application that wasn't simply designed to handle 205 crank torque. You said it yourself in a post way back that in order to achieve your numbers you needed to build your transmission with heavy duty parts to in order to feel good about the numbers you want to put down. 400+ HP is alot and filling peoples heads with the idea that the automatic will handle the abuse over 200 ft/lbs CRANK Torque from the motor seems a bit silly.
Yes I will agree with the nature the car will handle it but as for most people who just want the car to go fast they overlook the actual figures that are presented to them and look to figure head people to pull the trigger and say yes this will be fine when infact it will not be.
Maybe right now it will but will it in a week, a month, a year? You also really think those puny axles connected to the drive train will handle the brute force of a car doing a 3k-4k RPM drop? Doubt it. Thats what these people are going to do. It says on one of the intros of the build book that the trans cannot essentially power over 250whp.
Yes I will agree with the nature the car will handle it but as for most people who just want the car to go fast they overlook the actual figures that are presented to them and look to figure head people to pull the trigger and say yes this will be fine when infact it will not be.
Maybe right now it will but will it in a week, a month, a year? You also really think those puny axles connected to the drive train will handle the brute force of a car doing a 3k-4k RPM drop? Doubt it. Thats what these people are going to do. It says on one of the intros of the build book that the trans cannot essentially power over 250whp.
What are you doing "Dropping" 3k RPM on the trans? You brake torque an automatic, you don't neutral drop it. And brake torquing is the reason why the half shafts don't break, because the static torque is already there and being held by the brakes. There is no shock torque like there is with dropping a clutch.
And I never said the converter was going to break. I said it was a weak link. You guys are right that it has to do with heat, not mechanical failure. The converter is going to drastically heat up the trans fluid. And at higher torque numbers, it only gets worse. A stock trans should in fact be fine. But start going over the currently published numbers for this kit, and you better be using a fluid cooler.