Smitty1017

So I know this doesn't actually exist but...

What if there was a hyrogen injection system (like a nitrous kit) for a car. I know (or im at least under the impression) that hydrogen blows up with alot more force than fuel does... So that sounds neat. Has it ever been done? anyone else wanna daydream lol

nramlow2006

would bee cool as hell but all i can say is BOOM! LOL

Novajoe

I'm sure it'll come to light within the next 20 years... when we start running out of oil... Well we're already running out, but it'll get alot worse.

CoBIZZLE

GM already has hydrogen fuel cell technology under development if I can recall correctly... they are working with Shell to get it rolling I believe.

HunterKiller89

iTrader: (1)

its essentially what you are doing.....gas is just a bunch of carbon chains, such as C6H14...your essentially blowing up the H molecules in gasoline, which is why the C (in the form of CO and CO2) is the exhaust. burning JUST hydrogen would effectively be cleaner, but get similar horsepower figures. However, hydrogen burns so fast, i doubt its practical to build an engine that can take the power. It would probably be similar to that engine designe to be powered from knockng/detonation...great in theory, but not practical

Novajoe

I doubt internal combustion engines are going to be around that much longer in passenger cars. They just don't work that efficiently with the fuels of the future. However they could be around for awhile for use with bio-deisel applications.

smartmlp

iTrader: (1)

This wouldn't provide any additional horsepower. Why? Because Nitrous works by adding additional oxygen to the combustion process so that more fuel can be used, and in turn you get more power (n2o). Each N2O molecule contains 1 oxygen molecule, providing 33% oxygen. Compare that to normal air that is only around 20% oxygen. Adding hydrogen wouldn't do the same thing, you would just be replacing the fuel with hydrogen. With the same amount of air coming in, all you would be doing is messing with your air-fuel-ratio.

HunterKiller89

iTrader: (1)

the above is also true.....nitrous also helps cool the engine, making more power...which pure hydrogen wouldnt do...nitrogen is honestly a superior fuel..though costly

Smitty1017

well...does hydrogen blow up "Harder" than pure gas?

Kinda how nitrous is more O2 than air, hydrogen (pure) is obviously more Hydrogen than a hydrocarbon.

So. if you just put a pure constant dry shot of nitrous (No air intake), and then also injected hydrogen (Gas?) im not sure what temperature hydrogen is a liquid at..

but anyways. 2 gasses in your engine cyclinder, no liquid = better compression.

More O2 and more H2= ALOT OF ******* POWER. (mirite?)

P.S. on a side note: Why do we pay so much for filling nitrous bottles when you could just get a pure oxygen bottle? does anyone do this? has anyone heard of this?

HunterKiller89

iTrader: (1)

gasoline is a gas in the combustion temperature....gasoline cannot burn in a liquid state.
too much power...hydrogen burns at a rate similar to an engine constantly detonating

pure oxygen is too strong...if you lit a match in a pure oxygen environment, there would be a 6in flame...opposed to a typical 3MM flame.

we use nitrous because it contains 33% oxygen, and when oxygen separates from nitrogen, it creates a cooling effect, kelping to cool the engine, resist knocking under this new energy, and keep parts from blowing up from heat (they blow by force however) nitrogen also makes up 76% of the atmosphere, and our catalytic converters are built to reduce emissions associated with nitrogen, though this is mostly just an added bonus

Smitty1017

wow thats something im suprised i didn't know.. gasoline is heated/compressed into a gas in the combustion chamber...hmm i feel dumb.

what about...say you got an "inline 14" 14 cylinders....meant to go 1 (maybe 2) at a time. the cam is staggered between all of the cyclinders so they don't detonate as easily.

what whould happen then?

I know this is an out there topic but whatever, its fun to theorycraft.

And another thing...

If you had pure oxygen injection, it wouldn't be 100% oxygen..it would mix with intake air and just raise the 20% to a higher number..meaning in essence that if you used it as a nitrous system, the oxygen bottle would last 3x as long since you would, in theory, need 3x less oxygen to make the same oxygen lvls that a similar amount of N20 would yeild

The only problem with the oxygen would be the heat.

eirhed

Ford actually has a supercharged 6.8L V10 that runs on hydrogen. I developed the damper for the engine and all I can say is that it is a dog. With 10 psi of boost it makes a whopping 250HP!! They actually converted one of the test engines to gas and made 1300HP. So yes, it can and has been done, but the output is much less than conventional gasoline. The hydrogen costs about 5 times more to refine than crude oil as well. They use it in many bus and mass transport applications b/c it has little if no emmissions. The buses are here in Detroit and in California.

1gmfanatik

That's some crazy **** to think about. Just make sure your Flux Capacitor is pushing 1 point 21 gigawatts and I think she'll hold up aight.

HunterKiller89

iTrader: (1)

theorycraft is always fun...its a good wy to learn

a 14cyl engine only injecting enough hydrogen to not blow the cylinders (ie, same output as a i4 gasoline engine) would have such a heavy rotating mass, i dont think it would move. if your making the same power, but moving parts that are 3.5x heavier, you wont see any kind of gains, although it would indeed stand up to the detonation of hydrogen. ...also, it would be pretty damn hard to fit 14 cylinders into a car without raising the weight of the car to a level where it launches slower than a 80's civic

in the end, its just not efficient to do this...oxygen injection would be better than hydrogen fuel...unless of course its a fuel cell car

mike02z28

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/how-a-...ine-works2.htm

They are working on hydrogen injection.

Novajoe

that's cool and all, but I still think fuel cells are going to be the big thing. The way oil production keeps falling and oil consumption keeps rising.... We're going to start putting more and more time into things that don't use fossil fuels.

Smitty1017

whats gonna happen to the tuning world when we got electric cars?? NOOOOOO

Novajoe

it'll change just like it did when fuel injection came about.... ok maybe more so... but people are still going to be trying to pull more speed out of cars, we're just going to be upping the amperage and volts instead of increasing hp and tq... and trying to decrease resistance instead of parasitic drag...

DrPuttsSS/SC

Yeah, like we'll have to be buying gold bars to make power cables, things like that.

Hey, we'll find a way!!

R&C_rallySS

Biggest myth in the world. There is enough oil in the earth to last over 5k years even at the rate of speed we use oil now. Exactly what the big oil companies want you to think. Here in the US we have enough oil for everyone here to last 1k years+

Novajoe

lol. Jewelry shops... the way of future performance tuning!!

Actually THATS what the oil companies want you to think so you'll keep on using gasoline vehicles and never realize the real problem. Sure there's still alot of oil around... but we've been pulling less and less crude oil out of the earth every year for the last 20 years or so. That coupled with the fact that every year demand for crude oil goes up all over the world...

why do you think we invaded Iraq? because it's one of the biggest untapped resources for crude oil left in the world. Drive through texas sometime and look at all the oil pumps around. How many are still pumping?

cakeeater

a hydrogen fuel cell involves absolutely no combustion.

Smitty1017

Pull those expensive componet cables off your ps3 and FEEL DA POWA

Want to hear my oil theory?

The oil in alaska were not drilling...ever wonder why?

The us isn't stupid. we're waiting till the oils gone.

Then were gonna rape the arab nations sideways like their raping us now...

Karmas a bitch huh saudi arabia?

cakeeater

the actual "explosion" in your combustion chamber does almost nothing for you. It is the massive change in temperature and expanding gasses that creates the most pressure, and power, that's why leaning out your AFR will usually yeild more power, but be more dangerous for your internals. And what engine are you talking about because i know of one that is pretty efficient...it's called diesel.

you missed the major reason we use nitrous...lol. ill give you a chance to mention it because i think you know just didn't say.

no we aren't drilling it because it would cost billions upon billions of dollars to set up oil rigs etc. and our governement/automotive industry know there is absolutely no way we will be using fossil fuels for more than another 15 years as our major source of energy (transportation wise).

Smitty1017

If I were to have an estimated guess...the usa probly wont get the vast majority on board alternative fuels for at least....30 years sounds about right...

Why?

People are gonna be hesitant to try it first of all, becuase its something unknown to them..

Secondly, all signs point to more expensive, and less resale value. people would rather pay high gas prices than an extra say 5000$ up front, imo. Why? couldn't tell ya.

I mean look at the hybrids, theres a decent amount of them out there now for sale... yet i barely evr see hyrbids around. maybe 1%. and thats a high guess.

seems like alot more people would be jumping on board by now if we are to be rid of gas/oil cars by 2025...