gtxsport11

ok that is good now i am getin like 23-26 if i hammer it which i do everywhere i should be getin like 30-35 if i would drive it like a baby

XM15

Good luck with it gtx. I hope you have better luck than I did.

gtxsport11

thanks xm15 i will post back up with the gains after i finish with my mods the ss/sc dp, manifold, and the suspension springs

IonFeright

When I removed my cat from my 2.2 I lost alot of my low end torque but up top it screams now. Kinda the same thing. My car is really peaky right now which from what I hear is a good thing.

Novajoe

blktrax, you should swap the manifold to stock, go to the track and get times, then put the 2.4 back on and get more times. I'd almost bet you don't get any faster, if not slower.

of course you feel a huge burst when you get up top. You lost so much power down low that the top end is going to feel alot stronger than it actually is. I'm not saying the 2.4 is a bad manifold... but n/a on the stock rev limit it isn't going to get you anywhere.

Relying on your butt dyno is always going to tell you that a part is making you faster. You want it to be faster... so you feel like it's faster. Also just because you got a 10hp gain on the dyno doesn't neccessarily mean you got faster either...

Either way we need some track times for the manifold... not dyno #s

XM15

Thats exactly what I told the guy at the performance shop.

+rep for reading my mind

I'm not saying that the swap is neccessarily bad either, I just don't think it will work for me. I don't live much in that top 700rpms anyways...

blktrax

I dont do drag, I do autocross, this car lives above 4500 in my world, except on the street and when it does, it goes and gets the groceries just fine. I pass just about everyhing else in a turn. Its not a straight line muscle car. if it were destined to be one, its going to take a lot more than bolt-ons to bore me for less 15 seconds down the track.
I enjoy going to drag races, and watching them, I choose not to beat on my car that hard to feel like ive proved something. The dyno does that just fine.

Heres some track times
Best of the day 47.340 seconds

Getting beat by a stock Mini Cooper S on slicks and the 64 year old guy driving, turning his best time of the day with me in the car with him @
44.3 seconds

Both of us beating a Street prepped roll caged Vette on slicks
time of 49.5
Priceless...

Novajoe

I'm not saying you have to compete in drag racing... just go get some times to measure the acceleration difference between the two manifolds. I used to compete in solo II and several auto-x competitions every year with my crx. But even in my purpose built auto-x crx I still took it to the drag strip to measure gains with new parts I wasn't sure of.

blktrax

Then go right ahead and do that, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I work for me. If I have information that happens to be benifical to one or a group of people i'll pass it along.

These cobalts are 3 years old, the aftermaket is getting smaller for performace options because of emissions and fuel cost. So its up to us to pioneer and find things that work and dont and share that information. The information I gave is more accurate and measurable, than the diffrence in drivers abilities. ( I suck at R/t's and don't like to drag race)

So if you feel thats vital informaiton to be included, then don't pass the buck to someone else and tell them to do it. Go buy the manifold, try it out see if it does or doesn't and tell the world the outcome.

Sorry if that comes off as brash, and i know ppl are learning on this site and others, i've just had my fill of whiny posts today.

Novajoe

Personally I have no use for buying a 2.4 manifold since my future plans don't include it, but if someone wants to lend me one... I'd be happy to get some times. Chances are that's not going to happen though.

I can understand you don't want to. it's cool. I'm just tired of everyone running around saying the manifold is "the ****" when there's no real evidence that it's actually making the car faster.

BlackedOutCoby

+rep for Blktrax. He did everything right to prove that this was better for the car then the stock manifold. I have been able to dulicate his gains + some. The fact is unless you dyno your car with the stock manifold at teh exact same temps and humidity as when you dynoed the 2.4 manifold then yoru results are skewed. my stock dyno done in March was 71 degrees outside and measured 143whp and 137tq, after installing the 2.4 manifold and dynoing on a 107degree temp day and still seeing a 11whp gain and 19tq gain I know this swap was beneficial cause my gains will only grow as the ambient air temps drop this fall.

Witt

Intake manifold tuning/shaping/building is a science. Any changes in diameter and length will affect your torque curve on a naturally aspirated car.

In one of my tuning books I remember seeing a picture of a manifold off an older Ecotec Saturn (01?) and the author mentioned the 2.2 manifold being high temp plastic for cost reasons but the specific diameter and length was for a decent torque curve for the relatively small displacement engine.

blktrax

I will absolutly aggree with that statement. Its an application and preffrence based decision. AS ARE ALL PARTS/UPGRADES/MODS ect... People need to stop looking for the holy grail of power gain only and get an understanding of compromise and trade offs.

It should go something like: "I want my car to do BLANK, therefore I need to look for things that improve BLANK, to accomplish BLANK."

Randomly throwing money at parts that claim "gains" is not a good sound plan for anything.

Nor is debunking anything in the same manner. If you want to do this, it helps; if you want to do that, it may not be a good choice, and it goes like that.

What I find most entertaining, is how many ppl on this site have "Feelers" for selling their cars, or trying to. Again lack of understanding; "Well i can''t just off the shelf buy stuff and get 350HP, oh well, sell it." Or better still, How can I get to XXX-HP, as if and arbatrairy HP number means how good or bad the car is.

Figure out what you want the car to do to make it enjoyable for you to drive or do something specific. Then accomplish that.

I:
Want a cheap daily driver thats easy to fix after the warranty.
Gets good Gas Milage.
Fun to drive
Looks good
Sounds Good
And compeditive in Auto-x


If you're worried about beating the other guy form every light everytime. Get and engineering degree and do it, or get a more powerful car with a stronger aftermarket.


Thank you Novajoe for being mature in your responses and having a conversation.

Witt

Real dynos>butt dynos

How lean is he running? I didn't see it in the dyno he posted.

Witt

It would only cause knock, which you would easily see on the dyno. I honestly don't see any knock issue on that dyno he posted.

tonio5555

Would tuning be able to correct that torque drop? I'm not familiar with running lean/rich, I know what it means, but as far as the engineering I'm curious to know if someone the ability to tune could help out this siutation.

Witt

You would have to establish that it is a problem. Usually scanning for knock retard or having a tailpipe sniffer when dynoing would tell you that.

Air/fuel or spark tuning would help the situation if this is indeed the case.

Novajoe

some adjustable cam gears could actually help you move your powerband around a little. As for him having a lean condition... there's nothing obvious on the dyno that would indicate it, it would help if he had an a/f ratio graph attached.

your welcome

BlackedOutCoby

would +rep Novajoe if I could but I need to spread some around first. Also +rep for Cobalter LS because that is exactly what I was telling Xm earlier about how the changes made to the fuel mapping and head of our engine from 06 to 07 might be the difference in why every 07 on this board is destroying the 05-06 models in hp/tq gains and timeslips.