Witt

So, I've been spending oodles amounts of money into upgrades lately and while shopping I've noticed there are always more L61 eco parts available from the aftermarket than LSJ ones. It got me thinking, why don't I see more of these parts installed or talked about on .net? I was just curious if anyone else had any future plans on building the engine on the L61 for decent times?

If I had one as a project car, here's probably what I would consider, not counting the standard plain jane bolt ons(I/H/E):

Clutch - Probably the Spec 3+, I like how it feels on the LSJ, I would expect a similar feel on the 2.2.

Valvetrain: Supertech or Ferrea valves with matching springs and titanium retainers would be decent. The most aggressive set of Comp Cams that the stock PCM would be able to handle, I imagine Stage 2 street. Maybe some adjustable timing gears, but those are usually more of a pain and expense than they are worth.

Bottom end: Definetly a set of LSJ Diamond 10.5-1 pistons with some LSJ production rods. Add that into a Cometic LSJ specced head gasket and you should be floating somewhere around 11-1 compression. Neutral balance shafts would make the valvetrain complete but "no go" on the redline without PCM editting or piggybacking. Prolly still pick them up anyways in anticipation.

Traction/Suspension: Crinkle wall Hoosiers on some 15s would be great, along with some poly engine mounts. Not sure if any mounts are available yet, but they aren't hard too fabricate. Not 100% sure, but drag bags that fit the 2.0 would probably fit the LS/LT as well. Probably also get some eibach springs to get rid of that horrid ride height.

Icing on the cake: A dual stage 75+75 of nitrous controlled with an FJO mini controller. This should be enough to get decent times, but keeps the car drivable for the ride to work.

How come I don't see more of this type of setup? All this can be done with current parts available without any type of EPROM tuning or piggybacks. Come on 2.2 guys, the parts are there, this would make for a great weekend drag car, daily driver. Thoughts?

-NIVEK-

I dont even want to add up what the cost would be on that plus the downtime of the car would be a pain. Goin turbo would be the easier way to go probably cheaper also with alot less down time

rally

You don't see people talk about it on here because if you look at the 2.2 section its all about intakes and exhausts and one or two turbo threads. Anytime you mention any type of induction or mod that would require any type of tuning people jump in and call bluffs and crap.

WSFrazier

It's all about commitment and money. Most people buy the 2.2 for a daily driver/commuter car. If they plan on building a Cobalt, they will probably choose an LSJ.

Honestly, that build isn't that expensive. 3K at Max. Cheaper if you shop good and wait on GB's. Downtime would be about 2-3 weeks if you are prepared.

I am doing a similar build that includes even more and so far I am at ~$2,700.

A well made Turbo setup will run close to that, and this route you will have the confidence of a built motor that will last.

HackAbuse

One word




Tuning.

Witt

Yeah, thats what I'm trying to deviate away from.

The build I posted would be similar in cost to a turbo kit, plus you would have the reliability of a semi-built engine and drivability of a stock PCM. Please note, none of those mods would require any deviation from the stock PCM, it should be able to trim fuel and spark just fine within its own limits.

Not much commitment is required in this build, the hardest things can be done in a weekend with hand tools and a publically available build book. Others can be pieced together as money is available, being that a lot of that is supporting mods.

What would need tuned? The stock PCM will handle those mods just fine.

WSFrazier

I swear you 2.2's love using the whole tuning thing as a crutch.

XM15

One reason I am sticking to "plain jane" bolt on mods for now is that I am trying to restrain myself a bit until after I get out of school. If I chose to go any further, it would probably end up being alot further and costing quite a lot. Another major consideration is that because many of us bought the 2.2 as more of a commuter car than a tuner, we bought the extended warrenty and are trying to hold onto that as long as possible.

bc3tech

My thoughts are this:

My car is completey stock (gofast-wise) aside from the procharger and the fuel tuning right now. The stock block can handle upwards of 280hp, so you can do quite a bit w/ it w/o ever touching the bottom end. That said:
Clutch - I'm planning on spec 2 or 3, or bully 3 or 4
Valvetrain - I'm going for the Patriot Stage 2 head with upgraded valvetrain. Should be capable of revving to 8k once tuning comes out to let me do it
Bottom End - going with Eagle H beams with diamond or wiseco 10.5's Not sure if i'm going to do the .02" overbore yet
traction/susp - already got poly mounts, will be doing KW Variant adjustable coilovers after engine & drivetrain are built
icing - Procharger C1 already in.

Tuning can already be done via the SMT-6. Granted this is "only" fuel/spark/timing tuning, but really that's all you need to get a good FI setup running. **** i'm doing it on an SAFC-II and DFMU.

Currently there are two companies talking about tuning for the 2.2's. One is SCT [link] (makers of LiveWire, big into Fords but just developed the tuning on the Garrett turbo kit) the other that has just recently shown interest is Diablo Sport - which apparently does some things for the DSM crowd [link]

There you have my .02

TCarter

Thats really not true, I have pleanty of money and had intentions on building up a cobalt, and I picked the 2.4L.

But in defence to alot of people, they buy the 2.2L cuz its cheap, reliable, and still faster than alot of cars when lightly modded.

D4u2s0t

i can only speak for myself here, but i have other priorites that come first... i have the money to make my car a beast... but, a fast car is NOT more important than a house, or a retirement plan, or furniture, etc...

if i had this car when i was 18 and stupid, and lived with my parents, i probably would be dropping money into mods like that...

NJHK

Keyword was "probably". Evidentally, you didn't.

As far as this thread goes...

I think it's more widespread throughout the platforms, the SS/SC guys aren't necessarily smarter or any less cheaper but they have their form of forced induction and use that to their advantage. Trust and believe though, they can still be cheap or just honestly, don't know any better.

If a 2.2 guy had a $600 option to go much faster than any intake/exhaust combo for their 2.2, they would probably jump on it.

WSFrazier is right in a way...it is kind of a crutch about the lack of tuning. Me and Witt were discussing how piggybacks are and aren't the solution...there are just degrees. Like he put it "I wouldn't use a piggyback as a 12 second car but it still does the job". I think it should be more addressed of why and why it wouldn't work properly for whatever setup someone is trying to accomplish.

As far as why people aren't doing 2.2 Full Engine Rebuilds, I think that will come down to price and the type of person that buys a 2.2 Cobalt. They more than likely could not afford a higher platform, are within a certain spending budget and care about reliability more so than an SS/SC. A more dedicated person to doing something performance wise would spend the extra dollar for a better platform (starting platform) than another...there are very few that would buy the lower model PURPOSELY to have an ultimate performance vehicle, even though some say thats why they did, it's really just more of a convienence rather than performance intentions.

XM15

I agree. I bought this car (with some help from my parents) purely as a mode of transportation. When I first got it, I had no intention of modding whatsoever, which is the reason I got a base model. However, once I started searching the net a bit, I decided to do a few things. I don't expect to make this car "really fast", but I would like to do a few more things in the next few years. I look at it more as a learning experience; I want to learn how to work on the car by myself. What kind of annoys me (no offense to anyone in particular) is that some of us 2.2 guys keep saying "When tuning comes out, I'm going to go turbo and smoke the SS!" Whatever. When you do, post up! But don't go bragging about something that you probably won't end up doing! Rant over.

bc3tech

on a somewhat related note... somebody just posted about an '07 SS/SC doing 188 on a dyno totally stock. my car just did 188.28 w/ a flakey tune.

NJHK

If you read the thread you would know why...

and sorry but 188 whp, even with a flakey tune, isn't that impressive. There are guys with the GM Supercharger kit putting down 220s and a less efficient form of supercharging...

Back to the topic though

AZCobalt19

Took the words right from me. I at first didn't plan on taking any movement towards aftermarket products. My 2.2's sole purpose of existence is to get me to and from when I need to go. It will never be a 11 second track monster. So yeah, I put an intake on it and a nice set of wheels. That's all it needs to make it and enjoyabe and fun drive. Now when I get a higher paying job, then I think that is a smarter time to invest some money into a higher platform that is more logical to mod/tune.

Yeah... my fingers are done.

420cobalt

i got mine for transportation. i will do a little but i don't want to void the warrenty. simple bolt on at first. money is a problem so can't do much. all i know is these cars are fun to drive.

silver06cobalt

Same here. If i had a shitload of money to drop into this car i would have just bought an ss. But i didnt thats why im sticking with the basics.

Priorities currently prevent me from spending too much money on my car. Tuition is a bitch

420cobalt

these cars can still b fast. at this point i am not trading it in. i will most likely end u driving my car for years.

XM15

Thats what I plan on doing as well. Thats why I'm taking my sweet time with modding; if down the road I end up doing something major, it will be because I can afford it and not because I am stuck in the cycle of always having to have the latest and greatest.

sunrise_mj

the thing thats mainly holding me back is lack of ppl in my area that know the cobalt, or really the motor... i would rather go somewhere and talk to someone in person and set up a package of parts... id do that in a heartbeat.... ive already invested about 3500 in my stereo because thats just what i have to have first...

BlueThunder2006

Exactly. I can't necessarily speak for anyone else on the forum, but this definitely sums it up for me.

IonNinja

the purpose of me modding this car was to go fast for cheap...I never intended to dump large amounts of money into this car. although the more mods I get the more addicted I become...

I have no plans at the current time to build the bottom end...however a P&P'd head, valve springs & retainers and some Comp Stage 3 (or comparable) cams are a possibility in my distant future.

I've already covered all my bolt ons + nitrous so I moved on to my suspension and once there is a legit tuner available (not a fan of piggybacks) I'll look into a nitrous tune and then possibly some headwork.

My overall goal is to have a 13sec. L61...still workin on it.

and yes I purchased my car for price & reliability but I'm a fan of cars so...once the mod bug hits its a done deal.

Halfcent

First, I am sick of infighting. Stop it or infractions go out with ease.

Second, I have done exactly what the thread author is proposing. Not the same setup, but the same work. It was fun.

JapEatr

iTrader: (9)

i dont feel anyone is fighting, i also feel the l61 has MORE parts(at least GMPP wise) than the LSJ- enough for a wicked build up
\
but i get confused when reading GMs list if they are using LSJ,L61 or modified parts for their buildups

also rods are claimed to be strong to 278, but yet 300 hp build doesnt incorporate aftermarket rods...whereas the l61 build up does i dont have the PN on the GM aftermarket ones

also camshafts like the GM ones (performance) are design with more overlap for the 2.2 guys and it is stated will cause vacuum and drivability issues in the LSJ

it needs to be more concrete

EDIT: i wanted to add that i initially bought a ss/sc when they first came out in my area cuz i wanted the top performance model (G85 wasnt an option at time of purchase) i wanted my car to be supercharged, but i also care about reliability
so i am doing alot of planning in doing any modifactions to my car with care, but i have a parts gathering build in slow progress
going cheap is different than doing smart IMO

also 2.2 has been out longer than lsj, thus more parts