Borderlin3

Ok I have two questions. Call me a noob, whatever.

First question - What differences are there between the 2.0 and the 2.2 internal wise? Reason being is I want to supercharge my cavalier, and im wondering if I will see the same gains as a supercharged 2.0 without any internal modifications. I would eventually go stage 2 with enough mods to go around 230ish hp. Would I need any internal work done to reach that goal safely and maintain DD drivability?

Second Question - Is a connecting rod the same as a piston? whats the difference. i saw a picture of a connecting rod, and is it just the shaft of the piston?

again call me a noob, but oh well. I guess not asking would eventually lead me to lose money.

thanks in advance.

elecblue06

iTrader: (1)

noob..











if you're going boosted for your cavi then you should look into getting forged internals the rod is what connects the piston and the crank.. the piston and rod are 2 separate pieces

you will without a doubt get some great gains .. and you can do 230 on your car with stock internals.. i think you can use hptuners on your generation as well ... a great place to check this info out is ecotec forums there are more cavis there

the internals on the 2.2 are pretty iffy above 250 but tuned correctly you can pull it off with no worries

damn does anyone remember ninja text

XM15

Ah, yes. The good ol' ninja text.


Howdy!

You should be able to get 230hp without getting internal work done. It will all be in the tune.

TurboTechRacing

iTrader: (24)

On the 2.0L the connecting rod is shorter, crank is different journal heights, and the pistons are different as the whrist pin to the piston top is located different... The blocks on the ecotec are the same. The head is a "lost foam" style on the 2.0L which is better than the 2.2L standard cast.

I hope this helps.

boostedss26

A connecting rod connects the piston to the crankshaft. It is a seperate piece

XM15

Borderlin3, here is a good illustration of the crank, connecting rods, and pistons:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/engine2.htm

elecblue06

iTrader: (1)

i beat you all to it

Borderlin3

ok I have another question

What are the pros and cons of diamond,forged, cryoed? is there a single answer that one is better than the rest, or is it preference. I would assume Diamond would be best. but most expensive.

Does anyone have specs on these?

XM15

Diamond is a company that makes pistons.

Forging is a process of making them, which results in stronger pistons than the stock cast ones.

Cryo freezing is where a metal part is submerged in nitrogen gas (-300 degrees I believe). This realigns the molecules and yields a part that is much stronger and wears much better.

In other words, you can't go wrong by getting some forged internals and having them cryo frozen.

Borderlin3

ok I knew what they all did, I found out diamond was a company. I found the part number, but not where to order them at. Its part number 10000 oddly enough.

Would cryoing stock internals be just as strong as forged?

elecblue06

iTrader: (1)

more then likely not.. would it help.. **** yes.. as much as forged.. i highly doubt it but it's something i was thinking about .. i need to talk to someone that actually knows about it .. because from gm parts direct you can get a new set of pistons and rods for like 400 total lol and cryoing is very very cheap

Borderlin3

let me know when you find out.

Is it bad for me to think with this kind of logic.

If I am gonna be tearing into the engine, I might as well install as much as I can.

By the by, could you hypothetically put a 2.0 head on the 2.2 block and see gains?

Halfcent

No. The head would be stronger, but would not provide any additional power.

For your goals, you don't need to do a lot of what you are thinking. Leave your engine alone.

If you want to put a built engine in, the best advice is to go buy a core block, which can be had for about $500. Then take your time, build it on a stand, learn about it, and the whole time you are doing that, you haven't taken your existing car apart.

Borderlin3

Thanks. thats a good idea. Plus if all goes well, I am gonna be moving in with my best friend in KC. hes an amazing mechanic, and hes also in school to learn the stuff he doesnt. So it would be beneficial for both of us if we built this.

So all I need is the supercharger kit, other basic stuff like stage 2, intake, exhaust, maybe some cooling mods (does the kit come with an intercooler?, if not would a Heat exchanger be better?) and I should be good.

I just need to do some suspension mods, and fix a synchro, while im in there put a stage 1 clutch.

tru2nrtt777

iTrader: (1)

Haha! Good ol days...

XenSS06

iTrader: (4)

^^^

Quotes nothing?

tru2nrtt777

iTrader: (1)

Highlight it.

Cobalt_SSTuner

iTrader: (1)

lol good ol days coming from a member that joined on 2-8-08 lol

Halfcent

I see you have a Cavalier. You will not be able to do the Stage 2 kit on that car. Just the GMPP supercharger kit. The Stage kit were designed for the LSJ engine and ECM, which you don't have.

You could physically put the parts on, but you would not be able to use the tune that comes with it. You would have to get a custom one using HPTuners.

tru2nrtt777

iTrader: (1)

I wasnt refering to it on here but on forums in general, I was a part of s10forums since 04.

FacelessKhaos

cryogenic treating of forged parts yields a totally different part. Though the appearance and measurements are the same, the internal structure of the part(s) have dramatically changed. When a the material is cast, the molecules coagulate into "grains". These grains in cast structures are at a microscopic level about the size of popcorn kernels. These grains are also are not aligned in a distinct pattern, but more how you would find popcorn kernels that have been spread out on a counter top. Now, forging works these grains into smaller, more aligned grains. Using the analogy this time to the size of a grain of salt. With the alignment of the grains being more substantial and the grains being smaller, therefore they have much more surface area in between the grains therefore more internal friction that holds the molecules together more tightly. Take the forged part and dip it into a liquid nitrogen bath for "x" number of minutes (depending on material, size, density, prior treatment) and the molecules and grains again realign and become smaller, now to the size of say confectioners sugar immensely organized. Again, theory being the more internal friction between molecules, the stronger the part. But no good deed goes unpunished. For every strength you build up, there is an inevitable weakness. Whether it be loss of shear strength, tensile strength, etc. However, the wear and service life on the treated parts has now more than doubled if not tripled. In some cases up to 10x the normal service life of another part left untreated. But don't be discouraged by the weaknesses, the parts are specifically designed to function a certain way and if not abused beyond that of service expectations, then you are are all good. They may cost more up front but will save you money, time, and heartache in the future.

I have worked with parts and tools treated by this process and i must say that everything i have worked with that has been cryo treated has been a joy to work with. They last a long time and remain functioning way beyond conventional items not treated by the process.

You should be able to order the Diamond Pistons directly from them.

Borderlin3

yeah I realized that. I would just make my own stage 2. call it Stage 2.3 lol.

Im moving to KC before all this will happen, so I could payoff area to tune her for me.

Maven

iTrader: (1)

The LSJ/LNF have the LONGEST of all the production ECO rods. Longer is better.

Not sure what you mean here, but the LSJ/LNF crank has a shorter stroke, this is why its only a 2.0L even though it uses the same size(bore) pistons as the 2.2 A longer stroke helps create more torque, a shorter stroke is easier to spin faster(a 2.2 will happily spin 8000rpm)


The 2.0L blocks are equipped with oil squirters which reduce noise, and lower piston/combustion chamber temps(good things)

The LK9/LSJ head is sand cast and has a different design, internal stucture and port shape than the lost foam cast L61 head. The sand cast head is more expensive, and isnt compatible with 2nd gen L61 with factory computers, it is however stronger if youre going for crazy amounts of power.



Youre all backwards today TTR.