vanbergs

Hey everyone, I just purchased an '06 Cobalt LS 5spd, and I have some questions about mods. I'm also extremely new to the whole "owning a new car and extracting every last bit of performance out of it" scene, so please bear with me...

After searching through the forums, I had originally thought that the first two upgrades I would want would be a new cold air intake and a new exhaust. However, after some more research, it seems that neither will really add very much hp. Is that the case? If so, how do I add to the 145 horses that currently pull this car? Any recommendations for some added power are appreciated.

Looking forward to smoking my brother's Scion tc shortly

NJHK

Well here is the thing...

Intake & Exhaust upgrades will only do so much. People hype bolt ons more than they should because the gains are really that little in the greater aspect of "performance". If you were to do some upgrades, you'll notice a bit of a difference but in reality, it's very small for the money you're spending. You could spend $1,500 in bolt ons and still yield you with crap results.

To gain power, you need to add more fuel during combustion so you have a stronger and bigger explosion. Now, don't confuse what I'm saying as far as just throwing a ton of fuel into your motor and calling it a day. Your motor needs more air in order to use more fuel. Your motor relys on an air/fuel mixture...too much fuel is being rich, too less of fuel is being lean. Too much fuel can hurt your performance because it's not burning the fuel properly and basically "flooding" the cylinder. Not enough fuel is more dangerous...not enough fuel can cause detonation and extreme engine damage. There are of course levels of being rich and lean though...sometimes being lean or lean is good.

So now you understand the breakdown as far as how your motor makes power...you need more air. People usually go towards forced induction like Turbochargers or Superchargers. They provide a greater amount of air into the combustion chamber and raising the air pressure above atmospheric pressure and making fuel burning more efficient. With a greater amount of air being provided, you can now supply more fuel...more fuel and a balanced air/fuel ratio makes a bigger explosion and more power.

Now my advice to you is to figure out how much realistic power you want to make and then we as people can help you as far as reaching that goal properly. If you have anymore questions, just ask.

vanbergs

Wow, thanks for that informative reply, it is greatly appreciated. It seems like there is a growing demand for either turbo or a supercharger, so I'm excited for what may become possible down the road. As for the CAI and the exhausts, I'll keep my eyes peeled for some good deals, because right now I can't justify spending the $$$ on what is essentially changing the way the vehicle sounds...unless there's more to it than that?

CleanNFun

I just have an intake on 2.2, makes the car feel a bit more alive. I bet it would be a lot better with an exhaust :P

vanbergs

CleanNFun, which intake do you have installed? I'm already an insomniac and can't stop searching for how to improve upon this machine. To be honest, I'm looking at an Injen, despite what I said about the justifying of the price. The exhaust would probably go hand-in-hand with the intake, so it all comes down to me having to not be a dutchman.

NJHK

It's no problem.

The sound change from an intake has more to do with your intake tube and less restrictive filter...because it's hollow, sound is able to echo more. Exhaust sound difference allows you to hear the engine more...depending on how you setup the exhaust system will depend on how it sounds. There are ways of altering the sound.

As far as spending money on parts...

This is why I said you should pick a realistic horsepower goal. I say right now, focus on this:

1. How much power do you want?
2. How much money do you seriously want to invest into your cobalt?
3. Do you have enough knowledge or help to reach this power goal?
4. Can afford down time?
5. Can you afford to fix anything that breaks?
6. Can you afford the extra maintenance?
7. Do you care about your warranty?

This is just the beginning questions you need to think about answering but it's a start and basic things to think about.

vanbergs

I guess I'd like to get it in the 165 range. As far as warranty and maintenence and such, I do, in fact, care about the coverage I have on my new car. So, I would probably hesitate on changing anything with the catalytic converter or the manifold. With that in mind, would 160-165 horsepower be attainable, realistically without having to void warranty(s)?

NJHK

Well you void your warranty for an area you change, not just your whole car. Example: If you change your muffler and your piston cracks, your warranty for your motor/piston isn't voided cause you changed your muffler. They basically have to prove that what you changed caused the problem. If you do change anything inside your motor, chances are, they aren't going to warranty anything inside the motor cause they'll be quick to blame it on that part...but that's only if they can tell the difference.

NJHK

Is 160-165 Crank Horsepower attainable...sure...I guess...but think more in the lines of wheel horsepower, that's what really counts.

ted5986

we already have more than 145 hp. in fact we prob have about 155-160. because you race another car with 145 hp and 155 tq we smash them. my friend has a zx2 and he has the same hp and tq as me and he is lighter but still has not a chance. i mean many many car lengths. so i would just suggest a sri and an exhaust if you want to just add a bit of power

vanbergs

Cool, that's all damn good info guys. In the CAI, I'm leaning towards Injen, it seems to be the most attractive under the hood IMO. As for now, I'll definitely wait on any engine mods. Thanks for the feedback.

Also, NJHK, is there a substantial amount of hp lost when comparing total crank hp to actual wheel hp?

IonNinja

just guesstimations:

15% for a manual FWD car
20% for an auto FWD car

big_mike

actually, front wheel drive cars are more efficient than RWD cars. My 03 has 140hp (second year of the ECOTEC 2.2L) and it dynoed at 122. Thats only a 13% loss through a manual. Although my motor had 45k miles on it and was already well broken in. I am guessing a manual would lose about 16-18% or be at 119 on a 145hp motor using 18% loss.

NJHK

Basically what IonNinja said.

Guestimating just gives you an idea...but for a TRUE number, you'd have to do a dyno.

vanberge

vanbergs, you're not going to beat my tC...

and you can't void your warranty. If the dealer can prove that an aftermarket part that you added caused the problem in question, then your warranty for THAT PART is voided.
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/view...=moss+warranty

Mrmaasta

Interesting Anyhoo welcome to Cobaltss.net you 2 lets see some pics!

vanberge

THanks... my brother is vanbergs and he is a good man.

Here's a couple pics of my tC.




and here's a vid.
http://dancytime.com/videos/greddy_in_car.mov

Lol... sorry vanbergs not trying to invade your territory but i happened to stumble onto your post because me and vanlandw were reading about cobalts. I thought this might be fun!

VagrantRadio

Michigan guys eh? Welcome to the site!

Mrmaasta

You will like it here no doubt. I've always had a soft spot for Scions. Nice clean car!! Stick around not alot of Scion owners around these parts.

Edit: After watching the Vid, your ride sounds very nice!

vanberge

Thanks again guys. This forum seems pretty cool. Good stuff all around.

I've thought that increasing airflow overall (I/H/E) would result in the cars ECU automatically adjusting to the new airflow levels... i.e. telling the injectors to spray in some more fuel.

Also - a 10 hp increase at the wheels might not sound like alot, but can DEFINITELY feel it in the butt dyno.
IMO, is definitely worht spending 4-500 bucks to get 10 whp increase.

vanbergs

Yeah I probably won't be able to take you, but dragging will be fun none the less, brother.

vanbergs

Trying to figure out how to include images in these damn messages, give me a sec for some pics...

vanbergs

The first two are my new Cobalt, obviously. The remainders are of my Grand Prix going up in flames, and getting wasted shortly after this event took place.

06G5GT

ZX2 has a 2.0 worth 130hp and 135lbs-ft. It would weigh about 100 or so lbs less than a base Cobalt. A Zx2 would run about 1/2 second slower than the 1/4 you have listed.

vanberge

Any bets on the "brothers Van" race? We'll be Draggin' on Aug 11/12.



2005 Scion tC vs 2006 Chevy Cobalt LS

tC: Greddy SP2 exhaust, K&N CAI, Short Throw Shifter
Cobalt: Stockzorz

tC has more hp for sure, but - is def. a heavier car w/ glass roof.