qcpursuit

What is the best way to go with it,buy a performance head(patriot jpb...) or take mind and take it to a shop to port it.I dont know a lot of thing about porting and technical stuff about head but if you have any ideas of gain or performance increase it would be interesting.

Halfcent

Cost wise, it will be cheaper to have a local shop to it. However, that means being without your head, and your car, for as long as they take. They can do whatever you want, just intake side, just exhaust side, mild polish, shiny polish, as much as you are willing to pay for. But it will always be cheaper then buying a new head that is already prepared.

On the other hand, if you get the Patriot head, you get to keep driving your car until you actually install it. So minimum head down time.

If you are going to remove your head, a few things to consider...

Head removal is the most labor instensive part of doing the Ecotec internal replacement job. If you are going to have it off, consider replacing the rods and pistons too.

The GM head gasket and bolt kit is a great deal at about $150. It has a new gasket and all the bolts in one box. However, if you are going to push some serious horsepower in the future, use ARP studs.

WopOnTour

Plus places like Patriot use a complete computer aided CNC process for porting that is very accurate and repeatable. Hand port jobs even using templates are risky business as a small sip or slight over pressure on the grinder can cause a spot that's, too close to a water jacket or oil gallery. You woudnt want your intake port connected to a coolant passage obviously

So if you're going just for a port match and pocket polish, local is probably fine. But if your goal is to seriously "open up" the ports, then I would look around from someone CNC. Patriot ruined many dozed heads, just to determine the optimal cuts for their 2.2 head. (They also have done some LSJ heads, but AFAIK dont "offer" an LSJ head yet)

Wop

qcpursuit

If I follow the idea to cut on labor time I should change the pistons and rods like Halfcent said.If Im checking the option to get the comp cam stage 2,I should do it all these mods at the same time is that right?After that, I saw that turbo tech racing is selling ARP studs for 130$ and a cometic gasket for 90$.Are These two last parts worth the investment or I would be fine with the GM kit(I can have all the Gm parts at the dealer cost so maybe I can get a real deal on it)?And then,should I get some ajustable cam gears?Iknow that GM made a kit and JPB made one too.It all depend on cost and I think im going to make the job this winter and drive a crappy old cavy till spring so Im going to lose my car from end november till the end of april.I know my tread is going a little wild but I havent seen anything on it yet so thankl you for your technical support guys

CobaltCoupeCrazy

iTrader: (1)

I wasn't aware of JBP until the other day; I have long known about Patriot Performance (they make killer LS1 head and cam packages). I was looking at the information for the cylinder heads on both sites: http://jbodyperformance.com and http://patriot-peformance.com. I see that the prices for the JBP Heads are considerably higher than the Patriot Heads. Would anyone like to lay out any additional info for these two companies and what we might expect from the offerings??

Scott

Halfcent

Cams and the cam gears can all be done easily with the head on the car. You don't have to worry about those as part of your head removal. The GM stock head gasket is a cometic gasket, and probably the best one you can get. There are two gaskets styles out there, and the non-stock gasket requires special block machining, and is only necessary for an engine doing around 400 HP and up. Use the GM gasket and ARP studs. Just don't get the whole GM gasket kit, because you won't need the bolts.

JCswoosher2

Im wanting to do this to. i wonder how much it would cost to get pistons,heads and cams installed? wouldnt it basically be a piston install? because u have to take the heads off anyways to do the pistons right? anyone have a good estimate on labor alone to get all 3?

NJHK

Take it from someone who has a Patriot Performance Stage II head...it's worth doing.

The reason I would choose a head like Patriots over doing it at some shop is because:

1. Have a good repuation
2. Have done the work on our heads many times over
3. Include valvetrain parts that are stronger and better
4. They flow bench test every head

If you actually do the calculations on buying all the valvetrain parts (minus cams) and having someone port your head, it might come out about the same. To me, spending $1200 on quality work and not cheaping it out was defenitley worth it.

I will say this though...

Our cylinder heads are made with small ports for a reason. Our cars were designed for low end power (low end torque). Increasing the size of your cylinder head ports and not changing your camshafts to something with a better lift and duration to support the port size isn't smart.

NJHK

It depends on the shop that does the work. Alot of shops remove the whole engine and work that way instead of trying to replace the bottom end parts from up top. I believe you can also replace them from the bottom as well.

Prices vary from shop to shop so no one can give you a real price quote. It could be from $900-2000...some shops charge a higher amount per hour or they charge a flat rate or they will charge you more if they run into problems.

CobaltCoupeCrazy

iTrader: (1)

I would definitely buy a cylinder head from a popular company. Does anyone have any opinions on the JBP heads and why the are so darn much $$$$$$$$$$$??

Scott

NJHK

It's just their pricing but yeah, they are expensive. I'd stick to Patriots and you don't have to deal with a company in Canada (unless you're in Canada).

CobaltCoupeCrazy

iTrader: (1)

OK, thanks. I didn't really think that JBP could be that much better than Patriot to justify that large extra expense and yeah, I'm in the states.

OK, on another note. What cams would you recommend for maximmum power in a daily driver that sees a fair amount of full throttle driving. I do want something streetable and of course tuning will have to be available first. I'm thinking stage 2. You can get good gains without having to wind it all the way up to get the most out of the cams. What cam as in a particular one from a particular company?? Opinions/Comments??

JCswoosher2

where do u get the patriot?

NJHK

People should lose this idea of "street" and "non-street" camshafts. Most companies are going to make a camshaft that is more ideal for people who drive on the street because that is their market.

I think what people are confussing as far as the idea of a street cam is the "looping" sound they make and how usually the higher the "stage" they are, the more aggressive they sound. You should look for cams more according to the lift and duration that you want or need rather than their so called streetability because really, you can drive anything on the street...as far as it being street legal, that's all according to emmission standards (but that's another story).

Now to try and answer your question as far as what camshaft you should get...are you going for N/A performance? Are you aiming for boost? Are you looking to raise the limiter (rev)? Where are you looking for the camshafts to support your powerband?

In alot of cases, the higher the stage, the more overlap they have...this is how n/a cars make power. Also, higher staged cams usually aim more towards higher RPMs which is the complete opposite of where our powerband is stock. We make so much torque because our camshafts are designed to support the motor in lower RPMs. Also, we have so much torque because of our small ports (compared to say a Honda cylinder head).

If you're aiming for boost, you want to look for a camshaft (i would imagine) that had more lift and duration more so on the intake side than the exhaust side but again this depends on how high you plan on revving the car etc etc.

NJHK

I ordered mine through Ryne Hoover...he now runs Team Vision Racing

http://www.ryne.com/storefront

CobaltCoupeCrazy

iTrader: (1)

NJHK

Well, I'm not really interested in raising the rev limit but if so maybe to just like 6,750 or 7K. I know that the GM Performance Parts cams have really high lift and duration and I was wondering how extreme that would be. I also don't want to have a cam focused at all out top rpm b/c I want to get to my power before I get too high. I don't want to have to keep the car at 5500 to stay in the powerband. What I mean by streetable is that I don't want to sacrifice too much on the bottom end. If any of this is making any sense.

Thanks.

NJHK

Then get something mild like the JBP Stage 1. That's actually the one I have. As soon as I hit 3000 RPMs (everytime) it's easy revving. Even on my turbo setup, the Stage 1 is fine.

CobaltCowboy

stage 1 is a straight drop in while you need a retune with stages 2 and 3 right? and refresh my memory but what other components should you replace while doing a cam job?

CobaltCoupeCrazy

iTrader: (1)

I was considering waiting until a retune is available say from Unichip, so that I could use the Comp Cams stage 2. I know you have to replace the valve springs, but if you get the Patriot Performance Stage 2 you get new springs. Am I correct??

1stbluSS

man i cant wait to get home so my fiancee' can give me some ported head......

NJHK

No. When you change something as critical as camshafts, you're going to have a change in your fuel mixture (air/fuel ratio). My stage 1s initially made me run rich just because of the computer trying to comphensate fuel for the extra air it's seeing but my a/f ratio was still off and was running rich. I bought an SAFC to turn down the fuel mixture when entering higher RPMs because that's when it was getting sluggish.

Tuning is all in whether you need to or not...it's not a guarantee kind of thing.

You don't need any other components to swap your camshafts. It's a straight drop in no matter what stage you get. Now, if parts are worn, than you should replace them.

NJHK

When changing camshafts, you don't need new springs.

Yes, the patriot head comes with better springs.

BlackLS

I'm thinking of getting the stage 1 cams that are on this website http://www.turbotechracing.com/produ...idproduct=2450

I plan on staying N/A and I already have an intake and 2.5" cat-back exhaust and I'm going to get a new header and a 2.5" high-flow cat and I was wondering what kind of gains I could expect. I'm hoping for around 200 + WHP so If there is anything else you would recomend please let me know.

NJHK

I doubt you'll read 200 crank HP with cams and exhaust work.

In my opinion, 2 1/2" exhaust is too big for the 2.2L

CobaltCoupeCrazy

iTrader: (1)

I've read that anytime you replace the camshaft with aftermarket cams you need to replace the stock springs. With increased lift, you don't want to risk binding or breaking a spring.

Today in the GM Sport Compact Performance Build Book on page 69, I read "Use of mechanical lash adjusters is recommended when using camshafts with more lift than production. Clearance of .005"----.007" is recommended between the roller and the cam."
The GM performance Parts camshafts are also mentioned and also that they require the use of new springs to avoid coil bind. They recommend Bates springs.

NJHK, says 2.5" is too big. I say not and others say not as well. People vary b/n 2.25" and 2.5." Magnaflow uses 2.25" for the 2.2L and Corsa uses 2.5" on all systems for the Cobalts. I even asked for power gains from Corsa. From Corsa I was told that they got gains of 8-10 HP with the 2.2L, 10-12 HP with the 2.4L and 12-14HP with the 2.0L. Magnaflow claims an increase of 7 HP on the 2.0L using 2.5" pipe.