Quick Research Question, Need Help.
11-16-2007, 04:12 PM
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Quick Research Question, Need Help.
Alright. I have a sedan 2.2. Now i've been reading and trying to figure out a gameplan here for this upcoming summer. For the time being, I'm going show, with some go. I already have the intake. From what I've read the 2.4 intake manifold/tb swap, is good, but only if u have the 2.0 ss exhaust manifold? I came up with that conclusion, bc i read somewhere that u get more throttle response with that specific exhaust manifold? Now, my main question here is, would it even be worth doing those 2 manifold swaps, with a cat-back? I've been reading ridiculous numbers here, and was just curious. Another thing that came to mind is, that alot of guys who have these Hp/tq gains, also have the 07. Another thing I read is that they have the stock 2.0 exhaust manifold, and have different tuning. Since I have the 06, would I even see these gains? Or would I just throw codes n be pissed I wasted my money? Any input would help. I'm not turbo'ing my car netime soon, because i'm only 19, i make car payments, and lol...I live in buffalo, where it snows like 5 months a year. 
I jus want a lil input here, bc i'm quick, but i just want a few more hp's here. I also have the stage 2+ clutch, sooo it opened up alot of tq. I can chirp all the way to like 4th gear. lol. but ya just anyt help is appreciated. thanks all.
-ryan
I jus want a lil input here, bc i'm quick, but i just want a few more hp's here. I also have the stage 2+ clutch, sooo it opened up alot of tq. I can chirp all the way to like 4th gear. lol. but ya just anyt help is appreciated. thanks all.-ryan
11-16-2007, 04:38 PM
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A header is better than a exhaust manifold, I would get a CA header and a LSJ downpipe. A short throw shifter for a 00-05 Cavalier will be a good mod for you and is only $40 shipped.
11-16-2007, 04:41 PM
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I'll try to respond to as much as I can:
The 2.4 manifold swap is a trade off. For some people there is a slight decrease in low end torque and then there is a good increase of power for the last several thousand rpms. (mainly '07s) For myself, the loss of mid range torque did not make the swap worth it.
The reason the 2.0 exhaust manifold may have been mentioned was that people felt that opening the exhaust up before getting the intake manifold would be the best course of action. With that being said, if I were you I would buy a true header instead of going with the 2.0 manifold; the gains will be much better, and would look better as well. (For your "show" side)
I don't quite understand the clutch comment, but oh well. lol The clutch doesn't give you more power, so it couldn't make you chirp the tires in 4th. I highly doubt that its even possible to chirp the tires in 4th with a 2.2.
Bottom line: Save up for a true header as well as a downpipe and hope for some tuning come the summer. The intake manifold swap is up to you. It didn't work well at all for my car, but others have had better experiences.
Good luck!
The 2.4 manifold swap is a trade off. For some people there is a slight decrease in low end torque and then there is a good increase of power for the last several thousand rpms. (mainly '07s) For myself, the loss of mid range torque did not make the swap worth it.
The reason the 2.0 exhaust manifold may have been mentioned was that people felt that opening the exhaust up before getting the intake manifold would be the best course of action. With that being said, if I were you I would buy a true header instead of going with the 2.0 manifold; the gains will be much better, and would look better as well. (For your "show" side)
I don't quite understand the clutch comment, but oh well. lol The clutch doesn't give you more power, so it couldn't make you chirp the tires in 4th. I highly doubt that its even possible to chirp the tires in 4th with a 2.2.
Bottom line: Save up for a true header as well as a downpipe and hope for some tuning come the summer. The intake manifold swap is up to you. It didn't work well at all for my car, but others have had better experiences.
Good luck!
11-16-2007, 05:56 PM
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lol, when u get a performance clutch, it frees up more tq, and also grips better than the stock clutch. if u ever wanna take a ride in my car...call me when ur in buffalo. i can chirp into 3rd or 4th gear. and thank you for ur input.
11-16-2007, 06:23 PM
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um clutch was like 480 shipped...i didn't do a flywheel, i didn't have that much cash n i needed a clutch bad. i did it with my buddy whose "sposed to b a mechanic" and he fucked it all up. so i had to take it to a shop, and that was another almost 500. flywheels are roughly like 200-300 bucks. i hear they r worth it though.
11-17-2007, 08:43 AM
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Well I have a 07 2.2l cobalt lt3 that I turbocharged about a month ago. I'm running 8 psi and a 75 shot of nitrous through the intercooler. I'm putting my car up next week for winter and am pulling the motor out to build it. Right now with no tune and junk tires I ran a 13.2 @ 109 mph. I plan on running in the 11 sec range at the begining of next summer. I already have the eagle crankshaft, rods, pistons, valves and comp stage 3 cams for it along with a spec stage 4 clutch, fidanza aluminum flywheel and a areomotive hp inline fuel pump. I need to know kind of injectors i need and what tuning software is recommended, and if anyone makes axles that can handle that kind of power?
11-17-2007, 09:16 AM
#8
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Well I have a 07 2.2l cobalt lt3 that I turbocharged about a month ago. I'm running 8 psi and a 75 shot of nitrous through the intercooler. I'm putting my car up next week for winter and am pulling the motor out to build it. Right now with no tune and junk tires I ran a 13.2 @ 109 mph. I plan on running in the 11 sec range at the begining of next summer. I already have the eagle crankshaft, rods, pistons, valves and comp stage 3 cams for it along with a spec stage 4 clutch, fidanza aluminum flywheel and a areomotive hp inline fuel pump. I need to know kind of injectors i need and what tuning software is recommended, and if anyone makes axles that can handle that kind of power?
You turbocharged your Cobalt
Have taken it to the track, which is essentially wide open throttle multiple times I'm assuming
And you currently "no tune" and want to know what tuning software to use and what injectors to buy?
To the original question,
First thing first, you need to understand what intake and exhaust resonating is to understand why people do what they do when it comes to the exhaust and intake system. Read this: http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4572
Last edited by NJHK; 11-17-2007 at 09:16 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
11-17-2007, 10:39 AM
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que?
So let me get this straight...
You turbocharged your Cobalt
Have taken it to the track, which is essentially wide open throttle multiple times I'm assuming
And you currently "no tune" and want to know what tuning software to use and what injectors to buy?
To the original question,
First thing first, you need to understand what intake and exhaust resonating is to understand why people do what they do when it comes to the exhaust and intake system. Read this: http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4572
So let me get this straight...
You turbocharged your Cobalt
Have taken it to the track, which is essentially wide open throttle multiple times I'm assuming
And you currently "no tune" and want to know what tuning software to use and what injectors to buy?
To the original question,
First thing first, you need to understand what intake and exhaust resonating is to understand why people do what they do when it comes to the exhaust and intake system. Read this: http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4572
i was thinking the same thing when i read this....
11-17-2007, 10:57 AM
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Well yes I understand that Adam and u seem very knowledgable. I'm not to concerned about throwing a rod or frying a piston considering i'm taking the motor apart in a couple of weeks. I just wanted to know if anyone had any experience with live wire software or hp tuning software. Which would be the better buy, which would i benefit more out of? Should I go with 50lb injectors, 65lb.........?
11-17-2007, 12:06 PM
#11
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Well yes I understand that Adam and u seem very knowledgable. I'm not to concerned about throwing a rod or frying a piston considering i'm taking the motor apart in a couple of weeks. I just wanted to know if anyone had any experience with live wire software or hp tuning software. Which would be the better buy, which would i benefit more out of? Should I go with 50lb injectors, 65lb.........?
2. Unless you have an 07 2.2, HP Tuners won't have anything for you.
3. When you do get #1 situated, do more of a trial and error approach. Get some type of monitoring device to see what your duty cycle is OR read this:
http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2743
Originally Posted by NJHK
Ok, I want to build up my car but Im not sure what size fuel injectors to get. How do I find out what size I need?
This is a very common question asked. First, understand the point of changing your injectors is to maintain a certain demand of fuel to your engine from your fuel system as efficiently and reliably as possible.
When shopping for fuel injectors, understand that fuel injectors are also rated by fuel pressure. Fuel is being sent as high amounts of pressure which are typically measured by PSI. Lets use for example, you find fuel injectors that are 42 lbs/hr rated at 40 PSI of fuel pressure. Your car might run its highest at 50 PSI of fuel pressure. If you were to put these 42 lbs/hr injectors are going to be spraying more lbs/hr than the original rating just because of the increase in fuel pressure on your vehicle compared to their original rating. This might or might not what you would be aiming for depending on what youre using to control the injectors throughout idle, cruising speeds and wide open throttle but this is what you would have to shop for.
NOTE: Industry standard for fuel injector rating is about 45 PSI of fuel pressure (3 BAR of fuel pressure)
Now, what size do you need? There is a very good calculation that you can use to give yourself a good accurate answer:
Flow Rate = (Horsepower x BSFC) / (# of Injectors x Max Duty Cycle)
Ok, youre probably thinking what the hell is BSFC?. BSFC stands for brake-specific fuel consumption which are rated in pounds per hour. The average for naturally aspirated engines is about 0.45 and for turbocharged engines about 0.55 at full throttle (It could normally be anywhere from 0.4 to 0.6). Like said, these are estimations but it will give you a good idea.
Lets use an example:
Say you have a 2003 Pontiac Sunfire with a 2.2 ECOTEC and youre looking to turbo-charge it but you want to know the proper size injectors to get. Your goal is 300 Horsepower (flywheel horsepower). Its a 4 cylinder engine, so it has 4 injectors and the max duty cycle Im looking to ever go to is 80%. So lets do the math
Flow Rate = (300 HP x 0.55) / (4 x .80)
Flow Rate = (165) / (3.2)
Flow Rate = 51.5625
So I just figured out that if I wanted an estimate of 300 flywheel horsepower and dont want to exceed 80% duty cycle, I would need fuel injectors that are about 51.5 lbs/hr and this is also understanding 51.5 lbs/hr at whatever given rating of the fuel pressure.
This is a very common question asked. First, understand the point of changing your injectors is to maintain a certain demand of fuel to your engine from your fuel system as efficiently and reliably as possible.
When shopping for fuel injectors, understand that fuel injectors are also rated by fuel pressure. Fuel is being sent as high amounts of pressure which are typically measured by PSI. Lets use for example, you find fuel injectors that are 42 lbs/hr rated at 40 PSI of fuel pressure. Your car might run its highest at 50 PSI of fuel pressure. If you were to put these 42 lbs/hr injectors are going to be spraying more lbs/hr than the original rating just because of the increase in fuel pressure on your vehicle compared to their original rating. This might or might not what you would be aiming for depending on what youre using to control the injectors throughout idle, cruising speeds and wide open throttle but this is what you would have to shop for.
NOTE: Industry standard for fuel injector rating is about 45 PSI of fuel pressure (3 BAR of fuel pressure)
Now, what size do you need? There is a very good calculation that you can use to give yourself a good accurate answer:
Flow Rate = (Horsepower x BSFC) / (# of Injectors x Max Duty Cycle)
Ok, youre probably thinking what the hell is BSFC?. BSFC stands for brake-specific fuel consumption which are rated in pounds per hour. The average for naturally aspirated engines is about 0.45 and for turbocharged engines about 0.55 at full throttle (It could normally be anywhere from 0.4 to 0.6). Like said, these are estimations but it will give you a good idea.
Lets use an example:
Say you have a 2003 Pontiac Sunfire with a 2.2 ECOTEC and youre looking to turbo-charge it but you want to know the proper size injectors to get. Your goal is 300 Horsepower (flywheel horsepower). Its a 4 cylinder engine, so it has 4 injectors and the max duty cycle Im looking to ever go to is 80%. So lets do the math
Flow Rate = (300 HP x 0.55) / (4 x .80)
Flow Rate = (165) / (3.2)
Flow Rate = 51.5625
So I just figured out that if I wanted an estimate of 300 flywheel horsepower and dont want to exceed 80% duty cycle, I would need fuel injectors that are about 51.5 lbs/hr and this is also understanding 51.5 lbs/hr at whatever given rating of the fuel pressure.
11-18-2007, 12:05 PM
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que?
So let me get this straight...
You turbocharged your Cobalt
Have taken it to the track, which is essentially wide open throttle multiple times I'm assuming
And you currently "no tune" and want to know what tuning software to use and what injectors to buy?
To the original question,
First thing first, you need to understand what intake and exhaust resonating is to understand why people do what they do when it comes to the exhaust and intake system. Read this: http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4572
So let me get this straight...
You turbocharged your Cobalt
Have taken it to the track, which is essentially wide open throttle multiple times I'm assuming
And you currently "no tune" and want to know what tuning software to use and what injectors to buy?
To the original question,
First thing first, you need to understand what intake and exhaust resonating is to understand why people do what they do when it comes to the exhaust and intake system. Read this: http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4572
11-18-2007, 12:11 PM
#13
Senior Member
I've seen dynos where people are gaining power BUT they are losing torque in the bottom end because of a transfer of power from the change of intake velocity per RPM.
11-19-2007, 09:59 PM
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I'll try to respond to as much as I can:
The 2.4 manifold swap is a trade off. For some people there is a slight decrease in low end torque and then there is a good increase of power for the last several thousand rpms. (mainly '07s) For myself, the loss of mid range torque did not make the swap worth it.
The reason the 2.0 exhaust manifold may have been mentioned was that people felt that opening the exhaust up before getting the intake manifold would be the best course of action. With that being said, if I were you I would buy a true header instead of going with the 2.0 manifold; the gains will be much better, and would look better as well. (For your "show" side)
I don't quite understand the clutch comment, but oh well. lol The clutch doesn't give you more power, so it couldn't make you chirp the tires in 4th. I highly doubt that its even possible to chirp the tires in 4th with a 2.2.
Bottom line: Save up for a true header as well as a downpipe and hope for some tuning come the summer. The intake manifold swap is up to you. It didn't work well at all for my car, but others have had better experiences.
Good luck!
The 2.4 manifold swap is a trade off. For some people there is a slight decrease in low end torque and then there is a good increase of power for the last several thousand rpms. (mainly '07s) For myself, the loss of mid range torque did not make the swap worth it.
The reason the 2.0 exhaust manifold may have been mentioned was that people felt that opening the exhaust up before getting the intake manifold would be the best course of action. With that being said, if I were you I would buy a true header instead of going with the 2.0 manifold; the gains will be much better, and would look better as well. (For your "show" side)
I don't quite understand the clutch comment, but oh well. lol The clutch doesn't give you more power, so it couldn't make you chirp the tires in 4th. I highly doubt that its even possible to chirp the tires in 4th with a 2.2.
Bottom line: Save up for a true header as well as a downpipe and hope for some tuning come the summer. The intake manifold swap is up to you. It didn't work well at all for my car, but others have had better experiences.
Good luck!
i agree with what XM said. buy a real header, and dont just swap out and go the cheap way. if u gunna go through with it, mine as well do it the right way. i almost went to a lsj exhaust manifold but changed my mind for this exact reason.
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