Ram Air
10-06-2009, 02:02 PM
#4
even with a CAI the intake filter is located above that cut out, although it would help keep cool air more easily available for a CAI, i doubt u will see any power gains...and no your not the only one :p
but mine serves a purpose, my filter is literally right behind those cuts, plus with the base model bumper, there is only the small gap under the headlight for air to enter the fender well...
but mine serves a purpose, my filter is literally right behind those cuts, plus with the base model bumper, there is only the small gap under the headlight for air to enter the fender well...
10-06-2009, 03:59 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-22-06
Location: S.FL
Posts: 8,396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no benefit for that in a cobalt i can guarantee.
Maybe in a High HP car going highway speeds with a proper hood scoop and short intake path could have efficiency benefits but not your cobalt.
prob just **** up your filter with water.
my 2C
Maybe in a High HP car going highway speeds with a proper hood scoop and short intake path could have efficiency benefits but not your cobalt.
prob just **** up your filter with water.
my 2C
10-06-2009, 09:03 PM
#13
Junior Member
Join Date: 04-18-07
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had incredible success in using a home made ram air setup on my wife's old Dodge Daytona ES.
It not only had much better output from a stand still, passing on the freeway was so much nicer and the car never felt choked at any point. It is like it removed any vaccuums created by the stock intake.
The design started as a single, but ended up as a dual intake.
One feed from the ram air and one from the original tube that has the computer mounted.
When I heard people tell me that it was bad to bypass the original tube as the computer would have no air passing over it, I was upset. So instead of reverting, I just added a Y joint in the design and let both the fender and tube under the car feed the intake.
I thought this would disrupt the air velocity and all that jazz about velocity would be ruined by this. I was completely blown away, the car actually had even more up and go after this. Just for this engine, the more air, the better. On this design, the two tubes went to the stock airbox with a drop in K&N. As such, it probably would not work as good on a modern car with all the sensors getting messed with.
www.sounddomain.com/id/perfectblueangel
Pics are in the above link.
It not only had much better output from a stand still, passing on the freeway was so much nicer and the car never felt choked at any point. It is like it removed any vaccuums created by the stock intake.
The design started as a single, but ended up as a dual intake.
One feed from the ram air and one from the original tube that has the computer mounted.
When I heard people tell me that it was bad to bypass the original tube as the computer would have no air passing over it, I was upset. So instead of reverting, I just added a Y joint in the design and let both the fender and tube under the car feed the intake.
I thought this would disrupt the air velocity and all that jazz about velocity would be ruined by this. I was completely blown away, the car actually had even more up and go after this. Just for this engine, the more air, the better. On this design, the two tubes went to the stock airbox with a drop in K&N. As such, it probably would not work as good on a modern car with all the sensors getting messed with.
www.sounddomain.com/id/perfectblueangel
Pics are in the above link.
10-06-2009, 10:22 PM
#15
Junior Member
Join Date: 04-18-07
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is that the fog light insert from an LT, or?
Oh yeah and on the home made ram air, it definitely was a hack job but it worked so darn good. I definitely would not go to a car show and pop the hood for anyone, lol.
Oh yeah and on the home made ram air, it definitely was a hack job but it worked so darn good. I definitely would not go to a car show and pop the hood for anyone, lol.
10-06-2009, 10:48 PM
#17
even with a CAI the intake filter is located above that cut out, although it would help keep cool air more easily available for a CAI, i doubt u will see any power gains...and no your not the only one :p
but mine serves a purpose, my filter is literally right behind those cuts, plus with the base model bumper, there is only the small gap under the headlight for air to enter the fender well...
but mine serves a purpose, my filter is literally right behind those cuts, plus with the base model bumper, there is only the small gap under the headlight for air to enter the fender well...
10-06-2009, 11:04 PM
#18
LOL I was there at the dyno 2 years ago. It was a member of rockymountain ecotec, he sold his 2.4 ss shortly there after. There were gains, he was using custom made hood scoop right over the gmpp intake. He gained about 6 hp from the intake alone we were all impressed.
10-06-2009, 11:24 PM
#20
Junior Member
Join Date: 04-18-07
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember that post and how that guy had a hood scoop that many people questioned the styling of.
It is all about how the GMPP intake sucks in hot air even with the cheap box trying to keep the heat out. Once the cold air was available, the numbers jumped 6 hp.
On one of these MotorTrend tv specials they had a speed shop talk about performace and said for every 10 degrees colder the air is, it is 1 more hp. The air under the hood must be 60 degrees hotter than the outside even with that protective box and original intake routing trying to get colder air in.
This is why I don't ever buy WAIs.
Everyone with a WAI dynos their car with the hood open which totally bypasses a realistic test, and yes the shorter pipe with all other factors equal beats a long bendy pipe. But, when it comes to temperature difference, a closed hood sitting at a light might actually hamper performance on the low end. It might cool down the engine bay once up to highway speeds, but I can't imagine it would be enough to beat the temperature of air the CAI takes in even with the factor of having a long bendy pipe being a modifier.
The ram air is nice as it helps the intake prevent any vaccuums from occuring as the demand exceeds the design of the intake, which usually occurs on the freeway at WOT.
The E-Ram for example, it really is not a device to try and create boost, it is more like an instant ram air unit. It is good for a few HP, but for the price, the fact a blade can get sucked into the intake and the debate on the power drawn voltage and amperage wise vs the hp gained is always argued. I know people with these on their car, and it gives the same kind of up and go difference as having a lightweight underdrive pulley but only at WOT. Not a big difference, but it is there. Is it worth $300 and the risk? It is not for me.
I also hear, some cars due to the sensor in the intake, does not work well with the E-Ram.
So it works on some cars and does nothing and sometimes pops a CEL on others.
I still love the Honda video of the guy going down the road with a gas powered leaf blower stuck on his intake, hilarious. They actually got a decent gain on the dyno. Any takers? lol
It is all about how the GMPP intake sucks in hot air even with the cheap box trying to keep the heat out. Once the cold air was available, the numbers jumped 6 hp.
On one of these MotorTrend tv specials they had a speed shop talk about performace and said for every 10 degrees colder the air is, it is 1 more hp. The air under the hood must be 60 degrees hotter than the outside even with that protective box and original intake routing trying to get colder air in.
This is why I don't ever buy WAIs.
Everyone with a WAI dynos their car with the hood open which totally bypasses a realistic test, and yes the shorter pipe with all other factors equal beats a long bendy pipe. But, when it comes to temperature difference, a closed hood sitting at a light might actually hamper performance on the low end. It might cool down the engine bay once up to highway speeds, but I can't imagine it would be enough to beat the temperature of air the CAI takes in even with the factor of having a long bendy pipe being a modifier.
The ram air is nice as it helps the intake prevent any vaccuums from occuring as the demand exceeds the design of the intake, which usually occurs on the freeway at WOT.
The E-Ram for example, it really is not a device to try and create boost, it is more like an instant ram air unit. It is good for a few HP, but for the price, the fact a blade can get sucked into the intake and the debate on the power drawn voltage and amperage wise vs the hp gained is always argued. I know people with these on their car, and it gives the same kind of up and go difference as having a lightweight underdrive pulley but only at WOT. Not a big difference, but it is there. Is it worth $300 and the risk? It is not for me.
I also hear, some cars due to the sensor in the intake, does not work well with the E-Ram.
So it works on some cars and does nothing and sometimes pops a CEL on others.
I still love the Honda video of the guy going down the road with a gas powered leaf blower stuck on his intake, hilarious. They actually got a decent gain on the dyno. Any takers? lol
10-07-2009, 08:56 AM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-26-06
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^^^ Look Mike85220, no offense here, but you scare me.
I checked out the pics of your Daytona set-up, and I don't think you realize how incredibly bad and dangerous that set-up was prior to you adding in the Y to the stock air box. You essentially attached a straw from ground level straight through to your intake. Hopefully the Y you added will allow enough air in to prevent vacuum in your "ram-air" straw, I hope your lady never drives through a deep puddle.
The point of ram air is to extend your intake to an area that be force fed air. You have a straw pointing straight at the ground (this is a poorly designed CAI, not ram-air). The reason TA's have the big snouts at the very front of the car is to capitalize on wind that would normally just be creating drag. They in theory catch that wind and force feed it to your intake.
And I almost shat myself laughing after the E-ram (electric supercharger lolz) post. Look, you seem like a fairly intelligent individual, and the craftsmanship on the CA straw you made for your girls car didn't look too hacked. So I am hoping you are just ill-informed, but I have to tell you.
You're doing it wrong.
I'm not hating on people for trying to save a buck modding, I'm all for that. But sometime's doing things cheap turns very expensive in the end.
I checked out the pics of your Daytona set-up, and I don't think you realize how incredibly bad and dangerous that set-up was prior to you adding in the Y to the stock air box. You essentially attached a straw from ground level straight through to your intake. Hopefully the Y you added will allow enough air in to prevent vacuum in your "ram-air" straw, I hope your lady never drives through a deep puddle.
The point of ram air is to extend your intake to an area that be force fed air. You have a straw pointing straight at the ground (this is a poorly designed CAI, not ram-air). The reason TA's have the big snouts at the very front of the car is to capitalize on wind that would normally just be creating drag. They in theory catch that wind and force feed it to your intake.
And I almost shat myself laughing after the E-ram (electric supercharger lolz) post. Look, you seem like a fairly intelligent individual, and the craftsmanship on the CA straw you made for your girls car didn't look too hacked. So I am hoping you are just ill-informed, but I have to tell you.
You're doing it wrong.
I'm not hating on people for trying to save a buck modding, I'm all for that. But sometime's doing things cheap turns very expensive in the end.
10-07-2009, 09:34 AM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-22-06
Location: S.FL
Posts: 8,396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^^^ Look Mike85220, no offense here, but you scare me.
I checked out the pics of your Daytona set-up, and I don't think you realize how incredibly bad and dangerous that set-up was prior to you adding in the Y to the stock air box. You essentially attached a straw from ground level straight through to your intake. Hopefully the Y you added will allow enough air in to prevent vacuum in your "ram-air" straw, I hope your lady never drives through a deep puddle.
The point of ram air is to extend your intake to an area that be force fed air. You have a straw pointing straight at the ground (this is a poorly designed CAI, not ram-air). The reason TA's have the big snouts at the very front of the car is to capitalize on wind that would normally just be creating drag. They in theory catch that wind and force feed it to your intake.
And I almost shat myself laughing after the E-ram (electric supercharger lolz) post. Look, you seem like a fairly intelligent individual, and the craftsmanship on the CA straw you made for your girls car didn't look too hacked. So I am hoping you are just ill-informed, but I have to tell you.
You're doing it wrong.
I'm not hating on people for trying to save a buck modding, I'm all for that. But sometime's doing things cheap turns very expensive in the end.
I checked out the pics of your Daytona set-up, and I don't think you realize how incredibly bad and dangerous that set-up was prior to you adding in the Y to the stock air box. You essentially attached a straw from ground level straight through to your intake. Hopefully the Y you added will allow enough air in to prevent vacuum in your "ram-air" straw, I hope your lady never drives through a deep puddle.
The point of ram air is to extend your intake to an area that be force fed air. You have a straw pointing straight at the ground (this is a poorly designed CAI, not ram-air). The reason TA's have the big snouts at the very front of the car is to capitalize on wind that would normally just be creating drag. They in theory catch that wind and force feed it to your intake.
And I almost shat myself laughing after the E-ram (electric supercharger lolz) post. Look, you seem like a fairly intelligent individual, and the craftsmanship on the CA straw you made for your girls car didn't look too hacked. So I am hoping you are just ill-informed, but I have to tell you.
You're doing it wrong.
I'm not hating on people for trying to save a buck modding, I'm all for that. But sometime's doing things cheap turns very expensive in the end.
: twothumbs
10-07-2009, 04:13 PM
#23
Junior Member
Join Date: 04-18-07
Location: Apache Junction, AZ
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The ram air tube is cut offset to force air in.
The tube was high enough, and the pics do not show this well.
It is a hack job... but it worked out incredibly.
The two tubes go to a K&N filter.
The ram air tube is so HUGE that water cannot get sucked in, not enough vaccuum for it's width and not enough since the K&N is blocking.
Also, I am in Arizona, no puddles, lol.
Anyways, what works, works.
The E-Ram has worked for some and not worked for others.
It depends on the car, and where the unit is placed, and what kind of sensors and programming the car's computer has and many other factors. I do not endorse it, but it does create "Ram Air" types of velocity into the tube even if it never creates true pressure. With the stock intake tube, there is no help at all. With this E-Ram there is a good push to help feed air in.
Again, no E-Ram endorsements, but it does work for some cars.
http://www.vintagebus.com/howto/e-ram/ This link is one guy showing his results with the E-Ram, and no it is not the owner of E-Ram making up dyno results.
Just think about this, a true ram air works, mine worked, having a fan with that much air pushing in is either matching or exceeding the air pushed in from a standard ram air. The unit draws power from the electrical of which most agree its a 1hp drop, but the gain from the air coming in exceeds it. Not much hp gained, but this guy above got a good torque boost.
On my Ram Air, it was a ghetto set-up that I did not know how it would in the end turn out.
But I know for a fact the difference in up and go was literally amazing.
In fact when I sold the car, I sold the Ram Air unit and the guy was blown away.
There is no aftermarket CAIs for the old TBI Daytona.
If I were to do it again, it would have been one of those CAI kits I have seen where you make your own out of stainless pipe sections.
The problem still remained though, air had to go through the original intake to cool the computer.
That set-up would not last long in Florida, Maryland or Virginia, but I never dealt with rain more than a couple times in the Daytona and it did not suck anything up in the pipe. I did check the pipe each time and it was dry as a bone.
The tube was high enough, and the pics do not show this well.
It is a hack job... but it worked out incredibly.
The two tubes go to a K&N filter.
The ram air tube is so HUGE that water cannot get sucked in, not enough vaccuum for it's width and not enough since the K&N is blocking.
Also, I am in Arizona, no puddles, lol.
Anyways, what works, works.
The E-Ram has worked for some and not worked for others.
It depends on the car, and where the unit is placed, and what kind of sensors and programming the car's computer has and many other factors. I do not endorse it, but it does create "Ram Air" types of velocity into the tube even if it never creates true pressure. With the stock intake tube, there is no help at all. With this E-Ram there is a good push to help feed air in.
Again, no E-Ram endorsements, but it does work for some cars.
http://www.vintagebus.com/howto/e-ram/ This link is one guy showing his results with the E-Ram, and no it is not the owner of E-Ram making up dyno results.
Just think about this, a true ram air works, mine worked, having a fan with that much air pushing in is either matching or exceeding the air pushed in from a standard ram air. The unit draws power from the electrical of which most agree its a 1hp drop, but the gain from the air coming in exceeds it. Not much hp gained, but this guy above got a good torque boost.
On my Ram Air, it was a ghetto set-up that I did not know how it would in the end turn out.
But I know for a fact the difference in up and go was literally amazing.
In fact when I sold the car, I sold the Ram Air unit and the guy was blown away.
There is no aftermarket CAIs for the old TBI Daytona.
If I were to do it again, it would have been one of those CAI kits I have seen where you make your own out of stainless pipe sections.
The problem still remained though, air had to go through the original intake to cool the computer.
That set-up would not last long in Florida, Maryland or Virginia, but I never dealt with rain more than a couple times in the Daytona and it did not suck anything up in the pipe. I did check the pipe each time and it was dry as a bone.
