slindborg

Im changing my mind and going down the N/A tuning line as we have managed to get 200bhp (at the flywheel) in the UK using some mild cams, the 2.4 Inlet and 2.4 Electronic Throttle body + some head work.

What I would like to do is change to a manual throttle body and run standalone engine management... Is there a 2.4 sized TB that fits the 2.4/2.2 Inlet that still runs a traditional cable (I know its a 2.4 and 2.2 question)

Thanks

Stuart

YellowLT

You got a 2.4 Throttle Body on the 2.2, PLEASE SHARE, I beg you.

OrngBalt

slind... sounds like you are putting some good work into that 2.2. What piggyback did you run with the 2.4 TB to keep the car from going into limp mode?

Yellow, if you read up on what CED did with the 2.4 intake manifold, they also tested a tb on there, but the with the more air being allowed into the engine, the computer read it as a leak and put the car into limp mode. Even as rich as we run, the new throttle body was making a cobalt run too lean.

check out some of the earlier ion TB's... I knew there were a few of them that were cable TB's

does it fit? I dont know... but it's a start

slindborg

the 2.4 TB will register a leak and go into limp IF you dont have uprated cams to justify the extra airflow.

have a look on www.z22se.co.uk for posts by a user called Vocky about his 2.4 inlet mod.
No piggy back ecus were used, there was a slight remap but I personally dislike the companies in the UK that offer this service so want to go standalone (plus it means I can do the setup myself as its my job)

NJHK

The 2002-2005 ECOTEC J-bodies (Cavaliers/Sunfires) had mechanical throttle bodies if you want to look into them.

slindborg

Awesome! thanks

NJHK

You're welcome

blktrax

Otherwise change to the aluminum manifold and run the LS1 v8 cable throttlebody.

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/stor...-P334C137.aspx

This fabricated aluminum intake manifold accepts a 75 mm LS1 throttle body.

slindborg

as naughty as that manifold is, it simply wont fit in my engine bay..

blktrax

DOH, yea forget about that, in the VX220

slindborg

the 2.4 inlet is a very very good mod here (just a little rare but getting more popular)

Its just I want to goto standalone engine management and ditch the electronic throttle body, fit cams and have some ehad work done which is where the 2.4 TB becomes a benefit but we seem to get electronic versions of those appearing.

blktrax

Well the 2.4 ecotec didnt show up in the states till 05 and was electronic fomr the start.

the 03 to 05 cavilers had cable throttle bodies but were only 2.2's
Even with the GM supercharger kit, they didnt change the TB you reused the one you had.

slindborg

ah well, ill have to try and find a "custom" MTB that will fit and flow nicely on the 2.4 inlet

YellowLT

Yeah But the Larger TB Should Conteract my 32# injectors that throw crazy rich codes...... hmmmmmm Tinkering time

NJHK

Yeah, that setup is waaay overkill on any street car setup.

You'd have to have a major league sized turbocharger to make any use of that, otherwise, it's a complete waste.

Like said, it won't fit in the engine bay.

Sw4y1313

Adam, does the e16a read the airleak through the MAF or is it through the MAP. If we can figure out the frequency a stock 2.2 runs at idle, we can use the AEM FIC to clamp the signal or manipulate it so that the 2.4 TB works properly w/ the 2.4 manifold. Then you can use the o2 map so the car still sees 14.7 like normal but then actually alter the fuel map to alter the stock injectors pulse width and compensate for the extra airflow. The ECM would never see the difference but the butt dyno certainly would. Would be an interesting project to try but im not going NA =P

EDIT: i know this post is a complete run on sentence but im working, give me a break =P

NJHK

I think the major points that you're missing is that you don't need such large injectors.

I'll take this out of my FAQ incase anyone wants to read it:

http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2743

As far as "conteracting your injectors", it doesn't work like that. No matter what, you're going to bog and changing your throttle body is increasing the POSSIBLE volume that you could bring in but it doesn't mean that you're changing the amount of air you're bringing in but you are infact changing the intake velocity by making it larger, hence, shifting your powerband upwards.

So infact, you're still not helping your situation in the idle and crusing situations...you're probably going to make it worse.

Changing parts like this is doing nothing but altering your powerband. Larger you go, slower velocity build up and this will hinder resonating effects until you reach a higher RPM band to the point where you're now having enough intake strokes per minute to have such a velocity and take POSSIBLE use of the larger volume. Basically, lose low end torque, possibly gain in high end horsepower. It's all a trade off power wise UNLESS you do something to draw in more air (referring mostly to your camshafts). Increase duration & lift, increase air being drawn into the engine. Increase valve overlap, increase resonating effects.

On a naturally aspirated vehicle, increasing the throttle body size isn't really increasing the amount of air that is coming into the engine, Read the above post.

I'm not 100% on the 2.2s but do you guys infact have a MAP sensor? If so, then I'll comment.

blktrax

Not trying ot kill this thread, but what I've been hinting at is I have the 2.4 throttle body working on my 2.2. Its been working for almost a month now. I'm working is someone to make harnesses to make it a bolt on affair. Other wise its a perminant conversion and you'd have to chop the main wire harness.

First and foremost it's getting dynoed today to see if its even worth doing.

As NJHK said i'm sure is going to shift he powerband around again as did the 2.4 manifold.
Just have to and out where.

I'll post the results when I have them arraged in satisfactory order and in comparison to the unmodified results.

Not being rude, but I'll get them when I get them and I'll let everyone know.

Yes MAF and MAP

NJHK

Exactly. It didn't make sense why a MAF would cause the limp code.

I would imagine the MAP sensor would throw a code if there was a leak post MAF because it's having trouble building pressure and with MAP sensors, it uses manifold pressure to help determine engine load and other fueling factors.

Sw4y1313

^^What he said, beat me to it.

blktrax

I don't know about the person that first did the 2.4 manifold swap, I guess they tried to do the TB at the same time. I dont like making accusations to situations I know nothing about.

But fact is the 2.4 TB I have is working on my 07 in 40 to 100 degree weather, and has not thrown a single code.

However I do know that the 07 2.2 and it's many little changes, one of them being the MAP the other being the ECU, things make a diffrence.

NJHK

True but they still go by the same theory...so I don't think it's cause you have a 07.

sick06cobalt

okay so i have a question about adding the 2.4 thottle body, and the 2.4 intake mani...

As well all know it makes you run really lean on a 2.2 and puts you in limp mode...

what if you put bigger injectors into the 2.2 maybe like the stock 2.4 or the stock 2.0 ones? would that work...

I dont know much about this but i thought it would be a legit question to ask

NJHK

Not being rude, re-read the whole first page and it will answer your questions.

sick06cobalt

lol thanks adam.. yeah i didnt read it really.. but thanks man.. i got ya,... heres some rep fo you