turbo decisions
08-26-2012, 01:53 PM
#1
New Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 03-25-09
Location: Georgia
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
turbo decisions
Hey, Im looking into turboing my car. i have been looking a zzps stage 3 turbo kit. what would i have to upgrade on my stock 2.2l engine before i install this kit. also i have hp tuners and will be doing the tuning myself.
08-26-2012, 05:12 PM
#3
New Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 03-25-09
Location: Georgia
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i was told stock clutch would hold up to 400 hp. and what internals would have to be upgraded? pistons, rods? it comes with injectors this is my first build. and im going to do the internal build up before i buy the kit and just tune it as the parts go on.
08-26-2012, 06:33 PM
#5
You'll need to replace pistons and rods for forged ones. Depending on the mileage and how reliable you want, I would also replace rod and main bearings. The stock head is good to 400hp as is, but again depending on mileage you may want to upgrade. If you're wanting to rev higher then about 7300 rpms you're also gonna need neutral balance shafts. You can rev up to about 7500 without them but I wouldn't recommend doing that a lot without balance shafts and head work.
The stock tranny should be fine up to about 400hp, but as an L61 we don't have many options in that category.
The stock tranny should be fine up to about 400hp, but as an L61 we don't have many options in that category.
08-26-2012, 08:09 PM
#7
Pushing that much boost, I would drop the compression. Especially if you're tuning your first build. No offense cause I'm not sure of your tuning abilities but with higher compression if you screw up at all you could cause severe detonation problems and potentially damage the head as well. Keeping a high compression ratio is a good way to make power, but for minimal gains I don't see it being worth it in the long run.
As for the catback, running a turbo with over 300hp is probably just fine on a 2.5" catback system given you have a flow through muffler and aren't talking about stock. But if you decide to go up any higher you're probably going to run into issues with exhaust velocities. Too restrictive and you won't have enough velocity to evacuate the head of the exhaust gases efficiently. However, going too large you could also run into those problems as well. Most people who go turbo though end up running a 3", for what it's worth.
As for the catback, running a turbo with over 300hp is probably just fine on a 2.5" catback system given you have a flow through muffler and aren't talking about stock. But if you decide to go up any higher you're probably going to run into issues with exhaust velocities. Too restrictive and you won't have enough velocity to evacuate the head of the exhaust gases efficiently. However, going too large you could also run into those problems as well. Most people who go turbo though end up running a 3", for what it's worth.
08-26-2012, 09:31 PM
#9
Do this only if you want to risk buying new rods and pistons as well as a new block when you snap a rod and throw it through the side of the block. It's easier and cheaper to just swap rods to begin with.
There's a guy who I used to know who took that stance of go big on the power and worry about reliability later turbo'd his car 4 months later blew the pistons out. So please don't be dumb like that.
There's a guy who I used to know who took that stance of go big on the power and worry about reliability later turbo'd his car 4 months later blew the pistons out. So please don't be dumb like that.
08-26-2012, 09:48 PM
#10
Do this only if you want to risk buying new rods and pistons as well as a new block when you snap a rod and throw it through the side of the block. It's easier and cheaper to just swap rods to begin with.
There's a guy who I used to know who took that stance of go big on the power and worry about reliability later turbo'd his car 4 months later blew the pistons out. So please don't be dumb like that.
There's a guy who I used to know who took that stance of go big on the power and worry about reliability later turbo'd his car 4 months later blew the pistons out. So please don't be dumb like that.
08-26-2012, 11:31 PM
#11
If you run 8-10psi on a stage 3 kit with 50/60# injectors you'll have trouble tuning it. Unless he's extensivly tuned boosted cars he's gonna have a tough time adjusting fuel maps and MAF frequencies to run properly. And if he's only going to run 8/10 psi then why buy a stage 3 kit?
My suggestions were based off the implication that he wants big horsepower, which would be why he's going straight to a stage 3 kit. Yeah, you can bolt a turbo on that's capable of hitting 300/400hp and turn the boost controller all the way down, but it doesn't seem like that's what he's wanting to do.
My only concern is seeing another half ass build end in catastrophic failure due to pushing the components beyond their rated limits, especially to the extreme of bolt on another 150hp.
My suggestions were based off the implication that he wants big horsepower, which would be why he's going straight to a stage 3 kit. Yeah, you can bolt a turbo on that's capable of hitting 300/400hp and turn the boost controller all the way down, but it doesn't seem like that's what he's wanting to do.
My only concern is seeing another half ass build end in catastrophic failure due to pushing the components beyond their rated limits, especially to the extreme of bolt on another 150hp.
08-27-2012, 01:20 PM
#15
Haha. Obviously I do more then you. 258 hp is the rated limit for stock 2.2 internals. Can they handle a little more then that for a while? Sure. Can you throw 150 added hp at them and expect them to last. Hell the **** no.
Jesus. The level of incompetence on this site scares the living **** out of me most days.
Jesus. The level of incompetence on this site scares the living **** out of me most days.
08-27-2012, 02:22 PM
#16
Senior Member
Haha. Obviously I do more then you. 258 hp is the rated limit for stock 2.2 internals. Can they handle a little more then that for a while? Sure. Can you throw 150 added hp at them and expect them to last. Hell the **** no.
Jesus. The level of incompetence on this site scares the living **** out of me most days.
Jesus. The level of incompetence on this site scares the living **** out of me most days.
258? really?
08-27-2012, 02:37 PM
#18
Yeah 258. GM Racing tested the L61 ecotec motor to 258 before failure of the rods. Don't believe me? Go look it up. I'll wait.
And while you're at it, I would love to see how you tear everyone of my posts apart. So please try your best. Everything I have posted is information made public by people who sole job was to push every portion of our motors to their breaking points. I'm sorry if me taking the time to read the data published and pass it along offends you, but that doesn't make it false. If some of you people would read too you would find the same information I'm passing along. Just because you and your buddies did one thing doesn't mean it's going to work for everyone. And just because you feel comfortable sitting on a ticking time bomb doesn't mean everyone else is.
Point is, if op wants to drop $3000 for a turbo kit he might as well do it right and error on the side of caution instead of taking the ricer mentality of "screw it lets make big numbers for a short time and worry about other problems when **** blows up".
And while you're at it, I would love to see how you tear everyone of my posts apart. So please try your best. Everything I have posted is information made public by people who sole job was to push every portion of our motors to their breaking points. I'm sorry if me taking the time to read the data published and pass it along offends you, but that doesn't make it false. If some of you people would read too you would find the same information I'm passing along. Just because you and your buddies did one thing doesn't mean it's going to work for everyone. And just because you feel comfortable sitting on a ticking time bomb doesn't mean everyone else is.
Point is, if op wants to drop $3000 for a turbo kit he might as well do it right and error on the side of caution instead of taking the ricer mentality of "screw it lets make big numbers for a short time and worry about other problems when **** blows up".
08-27-2012, 02:49 PM
#19
Senior Member
Yeah, GM tested it. With NITROUS. Read that? NITROUS. Little different than boost there don't you think? Its a severe shock to the rods and pistons rather than the gradual ramp of boost. Mkulry ran garretts turbo kit for 4+ years at 250+WHP. WHP not BHP. I ran 10psi for 3 years, had fueling issues and lost the motor on 15psi after running for 5 months on 15psi. 1LowLS was on a 2.8 pulley forever. Ion_Ninja has been on boost forever. I could keep going.
Your claim that he wont be able to tune 60's at 10psi is just ridiculous. There is no reason he cant. None.
He CAN have reliable low boost end of story. You can scare him all you want but its the facts. If he has the coin to throw around and build and boost all at once cool. To everyone else that cant and wants boost don't scare them off with "GM's Numbers".
Your claim that he wont be able to tune 60's at 10psi is just ridiculous. There is no reason he cant. None.
He CAN have reliable low boost end of story. You can scare him all you want but its the facts. If he has the coin to throw around and build and boost all at once cool. To everyone else that cant and wants boost don't scare them off with "GM's Numbers".
08-27-2012, 03:03 PM
#20
Yeah and nitrous also has cooling effects to somewhat (and I use that loosely) to prevent detonation. Sure, nitrous is instantaneous but you get the same effects from boost when you beat on it and keep the motor in full boost for extended periods of time, ie racing. And on a first forced induction build do you really think he's gonna granny drive te car when it's done?
1lowls recently just had to build his motor did he not?...
I never said it was impossible to tune at 10psi on 60s, only that it was difficult. Op said this was his first build, and if he's never tuned for 60s he's gonna have issues tuning it to run properly. That's what I said. Again, reading comprehension is your friend.
Now if op wants to take y'alls advice and throw caution to the wind with his car based on stupid opinions, then when he blows his motor are y'all gonna hand over the money to fix it?...
Yes the motor can handle 250, but not much over.
1lowls recently just had to build his motor did he not?...
I never said it was impossible to tune at 10psi on 60s, only that it was difficult. Op said this was his first build, and if he's never tuned for 60s he's gonna have issues tuning it to run properly. That's what I said. Again, reading comprehension is your friend.
Now if op wants to take y'alls advice and throw caution to the wind with his car based on stupid opinions, then when he blows his motor are y'all gonna hand over the money to fix it?...
Yes the motor can handle 250, but not much over.
08-27-2012, 06:25 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: 06-29-07
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 1,993
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
(1) Yeah and nitrous also has cooling effects to somewhat (and I use that loosely) to prevent detonation. Sure, nitrous is instantaneous but you get the same effects from boost when you beat on it and keep the motor in full boost for extended periods of time, ie racing. And on a first forced induction build do you really think he's gonna granny drive te car when it's done?
(2) 1lowls recently just had to build his motor did he not?...
(3) Yes the motor can handle 250, but not much over.
(2) 1lowls recently just had to build his motor did he not?...
(3) Yes the motor can handle 250, but not much over.
(2) Think he needs a new head now.
(3) Heck somebody could blow the engine at 200 hp.
Last edited by MadBrad; 08-27-2012 at 06:26 PM. Reason: SP error
08-28-2012, 07:57 AM
#25
Yeah but what a lot of people are seeming to forget is that a turbo will make more horsepower at the same psi level over a supercharger since we deal with about 10% parasitic loss driving a supercharger of the crank.
I just dont want to see someone lose a motor right after boosting it.
I just dont want to see someone lose a motor right after boosting it.