Would it ever be possible for a LS to beat an SS
11-12-2008, 06:41 PM
#30
i run faster than my buds 2.4 ss auto, we have same mods, and i run even with my other friends 2.4 5spd, but i havent lined up with him yet, our times were close last time we went tot he track, so we need to run each other a few times i think we'll be even or he'll pull a bit...but a stock 2.4 isnt a challenge to me
11-13-2008, 03:18 PM
#32
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IMO, the only way for a 2.2 to beat an LNF or LSJ is for the 2.0 to have a horrible driver and/or something break. I know the NHRA Pro stocks are based on stock internals, but I think the block, cylinder heads, and body lines are the only things similar.. Wikipedia article...
Engine
The engine must be manufactured by the same company as the car body. Though no engine currently being raced in Pro Stock is used on any manufacturer's assembly line, all of the raw components are available to anyone. Engine blocks and cylinder heads are often provided in a "raw" condition with only approximate dimensions and rough machining. Each team will continue to machine and modify the part to their own standards.
If the car is a General Motors car (Chevrolet Cobalt or Pontiac G6 GXP), the block must be from any General Motors division. In General Motors' case, a factory Drag Racing Competition Engine, based on the current Vortec 8100 engine, is used.
Engine capacity is restricted to a maximum 500 inł (approx 8.2 L) single-camshaft, 90-degree V-8.
Some non-NHRA bodies will have different rules. Live Nation's IHRA does not have a 500-cubic inch rule, and some engines exceed 800+ inł, known as "mountain motors."
Pro stocks are limited to carburetor (naturally aspirated) intake systems, however the intake manifold and heads are open to modification. The most effective intake manifold configuration has continued to be the "tunnel ram" for nearly 40 years. The carburetors are raised above the engine; the length and configuration of the intake passages ("runners") is critical to horsepower output. The tall intake manifolds predicate the large hood scoop that is a signature of the Pro Stock class.
This has resulted in Pro Stock heads being the most sophisticated in any drag racing category.
Pro Stock engines generally produce around 2.5 hp/inł (114 kW/L). A complete Pro Stock engine normally costs more than $80,000.
The engine must be manufactured by the same company as the car body. Though no engine currently being raced in Pro Stock is used on any manufacturer's assembly line, all of the raw components are available to anyone. Engine blocks and cylinder heads are often provided in a "raw" condition with only approximate dimensions and rough machining. Each team will continue to machine and modify the part to their own standards.
If the car is a General Motors car (Chevrolet Cobalt or Pontiac G6 GXP), the block must be from any General Motors division. In General Motors' case, a factory Drag Racing Competition Engine, based on the current Vortec 8100 engine, is used.
Engine capacity is restricted to a maximum 500 inł (approx 8.2 L) single-camshaft, 90-degree V-8.
Some non-NHRA bodies will have different rules. Live Nation's IHRA does not have a 500-cubic inch rule, and some engines exceed 800+ inł, known as "mountain motors."
Pro stocks are limited to carburetor (naturally aspirated) intake systems, however the intake manifold and heads are open to modification. The most effective intake manifold configuration has continued to be the "tunnel ram" for nearly 40 years. The carburetors are raised above the engine; the length and configuration of the intake passages ("runners") is critical to horsepower output. The tall intake manifolds predicate the large hood scoop that is a signature of the Pro Stock class.
This has resulted in Pro Stock heads being the most sophisticated in any drag racing category.
Pro Stock engines generally produce around 2.5 hp/inł (114 kW/L). A complete Pro Stock engine normally costs more than $80,000.
11-13-2008, 07:24 PM
#33
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i run faster than my buds 2.4 ss auto, we have same mods, and i run even with my other friends 2.4 5spd, but i havent lined up with him yet, our times were close last time we went tot he track, so we need to run each other a few times i think we'll be even or he'll pull a bit...but a stock 2.4 isnt a challenge to me
11-13-2008, 10:37 PM
#35
when my car was brand new i raced my friends modded 2.2 and he beat me from a roll, only by a fender or so but it's definately possible, especially when the 2.2 has no options so it's really light weight. I'm decently bolted and he had a 75 shot and he hung with me pretty good, there are vids up on youtube of it if yall search.
)
11-14-2008, 12:08 AM
#37
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Yes there is haha, or you can be like me and just dump a ton of weight, insides, get a good 3" cai, nice air filter, ss suspension, and learn your mad driving skillz with a stick shift.and come up a tad bit short on an sc or tie an ss......
OOOOR
you can get high compression pistons, 8000 rpm rated crank, connecting rods, bigger injectors, a huge drag racing head.....and then for extra ooomph like the official GM Ecotec dragsters, add a couple z06 fuel injectors to the intake mani haha... and then you could give everything a good run for its money..... of course the crank alone is like 5 or 6 thou first haha
OOOOR
you can get high compression pistons, 8000 rpm rated crank, connecting rods, bigger injectors, a huge drag racing head.....and then for extra ooomph like the official GM Ecotec dragsters, add a couple z06 fuel injectors to the intake mani haha... and then you could give everything a good run for its money..... of course the crank alone is like 5 or 6 thou first haha
11-14-2008, 12:18 AM
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11-14-2008, 07:17 PM
#39
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a stock sssc isnt much faster by anymeans at all a normal driver would prob only run a 15.00. i raced a ion redline stock and we were neck and neck on the highway i mean until like 120 ish then he started pullin a little but im sure if it had any bolt ons it would be faster like a stage 2 or somthing but even then sc's dont kill us but ill agree there faster but not like crazy racing an evo or anything.
11-14-2008, 07:25 PM
#41
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Not that much faster...
Stock 2.2
1.)roccityroller,15.60@86.87 w/2.35 60',coupe, manual
2.)03nisoas03,15.73@89.89 w/2.46 60',coupe,manual
3.)MP81,16.32@84.31 w/2.40 60',coupe auto
4.)cjlee07,16.34@86.66 w/2.42 60',coupe,manual
5.)RollermanDan,16.43@84.65 w/2.38 60',coupe,manual
6.)Jn2,16.51@83.15 w/2.56 60',coupe,manual
Stock SS/SC
1.)madeinUSA,14.06@99.34 w/2.18 60'
2.)Tofu,14.12@97.29 w/2.00 60'
3.)STG2BALT,14.16@99.94 w/2.21 60'
4.)R&C_rallySS,14.24@100.06 w/2.23 60'
5.)SS4ME, 14.25@98.98 w/2.21 60'
6.)Julex,14.29@99.60 w/2.19 60'
Stock 2.2
1.)roccityroller,15.60@86.87 w/2.35 60',coupe, manual
2.)03nisoas03,15.73@89.89 w/2.46 60',coupe,manual
3.)MP81,16.32@84.31 w/2.40 60',coupe auto
4.)cjlee07,16.34@86.66 w/2.42 60',coupe,manual
5.)RollermanDan,16.43@84.65 w/2.38 60',coupe,manual
6.)Jn2,16.51@83.15 w/2.56 60',coupe,manual
Stock SS/SC
1.)madeinUSA,14.06@99.34 w/2.18 60'
2.)Tofu,14.12@97.29 w/2.00 60'
3.)STG2BALT,14.16@99.94 w/2.21 60'
4.)R&C_rallySS,14.24@100.06 w/2.23 60'
5.)SS4ME, 14.25@98.98 w/2.21 60'
6.)Julex,14.29@99.60 w/2.19 60'
11-16-2008, 05:23 PM
#42
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Not that much faster...
Stock 2.2
1.)roccityroller,15.60@86.87 w/2.35 60',coupe, manual
2.)03nisoas03,15.73@89.89 w/2.46 60',coupe,manual
3.)MP81,16.32@84.31 w/2.40 60',coupe auto
4.)cjlee07,16.34@86.66 w/2.42 60',coupe,manual
5.)RollermanDan,16.43@84.65 w/2.38 60',coupe,manual
6.)Jn2,16.51@83.15 w/2.56 60',coupe,manual
Stock SS/SC
1.)madeinUSA,14.06@99.34 w/2.18 60'
2.)Tofu,14.12@97.29 w/2.00 60'
3.)STG2BALT,14.16@99.94 w/2.21 60'
4.)R&C_rallySS,14.24@100.06 w/2.23 60'
5.)SS4ME, 14.25@98.98 w/2.21 60'
6.)Julex,14.29@99.60 w/2.19 60'
Stock 2.2
1.)roccityroller,15.60@86.87 w/2.35 60',coupe, manual
2.)03nisoas03,15.73@89.89 w/2.46 60',coupe,manual
3.)MP81,16.32@84.31 w/2.40 60',coupe auto
4.)cjlee07,16.34@86.66 w/2.42 60',coupe,manual
5.)RollermanDan,16.43@84.65 w/2.38 60',coupe,manual
6.)Jn2,16.51@83.15 w/2.56 60',coupe,manual
Stock SS/SC
1.)madeinUSA,14.06@99.34 w/2.18 60'
2.)Tofu,14.12@97.29 w/2.00 60'
3.)STG2BALT,14.16@99.94 w/2.21 60'
4.)R&C_rallySS,14.24@100.06 w/2.23 60'
5.)SS4ME, 14.25@98.98 w/2.21 60'
6.)Julex,14.29@99.60 w/2.19 60'
11-16-2008, 06:35 PM
#43
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Yes, they are you never specified them as being modded.You just said there not that much faster than 2.2's and the only fair way in comparing the two like that would be stock for stock.A "normal" driver won't run 15's in a SS/SC.Haha, I guess if you want to compare modded numbers aswell...
SS/SC, MODDED,STILL USING THE STOCK SUPERCHARGER(NO OTHER POWER ADDERS)
1.)hatrickstu,12.756@108.92 w/1.936 60' 2.85/I/H/DP/CD/E/T/CM/WR/SM/DR's
2.)DWK5150,12.84@110.53 w/2.04 60',I/PB/DP/E/2.5"/CM/T/DR's
3.)Fast06SS,12.86@109.13 w/1.93 60', I/E/CD/T/2.5"/DR's
4.)CobaltSS1,13.18@108.05 w/2.11 60',I/GMH/E/2.6"/T/ST
5.)Enufpwr,13.20@106.13 w/2.03 60', I/E/T/2.5"/CD/DP/DR's
6.)ralliartist,13.23@104.08 w/1.95 60',A/CM/WI/H/DP/CD/E/IM/2.9"/T/SM/DR'S
7.)R33P3R007,13.23@106.72 w/2.05 60',H/DP/2.7"/T/DR's
8.)an0malous,13.30@106.43 w/1.93 60',I/H/DP/E/T/2.8"/WI/CM/WR/DR'S
9.)PatathSS,13.32@105.66 w/2.08 60', I/H/T/2.5"/DR's
10.)black06ss,13.32@111.33 w/2.22 60',I/H/E/CM/2.7"/T/DR's
SS/SC, MODDED, N20 & OTHER POWER ADDERS
1.)06blackg85ss, 12.84@114.90 w/2.05 60' I/E/T/DR/TK/WI/DP/SM
2.)1^up, 13.41@107.03 w/2.18 60' GM2/2.8/CM/A/N2O
2.2 COBALTS, MODDED, NATURALLY ASPIRATED
1.)Blackedoutcoby,15.18@93.61 w/2.50 60',coupe,manual,I/IM/GMH/E/DR
2.)jbenso4,15.22@91.78 w/2.36 60',coupe, manual,I/E/IM/T/P/ST
3.)YellowLT,15.34@89.55 w/2.29 60'coupe,manual,I/E/ST
4.)07cobaltkid,15.35@88.28 w/2.22 60'coupe,manual,I/E/ST
5.)montecarloman,15.40@90.40 w/2.32 60'coupe,manual,TB/GMH/E/ST
6.)05sedan,15.61@87.99 w/2.38 60',sedan,manual, I/TB/E/ST
7.)Delta2.2,15.67@88.11 w/2.25 60',coupe,manual,I/E/GMH/ST
8.)copson20,15.72@90.21 w/2.48 60',coupe,5-speed,I/H/DP/CD/E/T/SM/IM/C/ST
2.2 COBALTS, MODDED WITH POWER ADDERS
1.)YzRider452,13.83@102.43 w/2.35 60',coupe,manual,I/H/DP/E/N20/ST
2.)lil_kano,14.24@98.17 w/2.34 60',sedan,auto,I/IM/TB/H/DP/E/N20/T/WR/SM/CD/ST
3.)RollermanDan,14.69@95.31 w/2.34 60',coupe, manual,I/E/N20/ST
4.)Spanky's Monkey,14.71@93.17 w/2.28 60',sedan,auto,I/GMH/DP/E/N20/T/ST
I'm not bashing 2.2's it's just that your post wasn't accurate.I just don't see how you can say it's nothing crazy like an Evo and that it's not that much faster than a 2.2 when in fact the SS/SC's performance is a whole lot closer to an Evo (esp X's) than the 2.2 is to a SS/SC (obviously all of them being stock just like the previous post).
SS/SC, MODDED,STILL USING THE STOCK SUPERCHARGER(NO OTHER POWER ADDERS)
1.)hatrickstu,12.756@108.92 w/1.936 60' 2.85/I/H/DP/CD/E/T/CM/WR/SM/DR's
2.)DWK5150,12.84@110.53 w/2.04 60',I/PB/DP/E/2.5"/CM/T/DR's
3.)Fast06SS,12.86@109.13 w/1.93 60', I/E/CD/T/2.5"/DR's
4.)CobaltSS1,13.18@108.05 w/2.11 60',I/GMH/E/2.6"/T/ST
5.)Enufpwr,13.20@106.13 w/2.03 60', I/E/T/2.5"/CD/DP/DR's
6.)ralliartist,13.23@104.08 w/1.95 60',A/CM/WI/H/DP/CD/E/IM/2.9"/T/SM/DR'S
7.)R33P3R007,13.23@106.72 w/2.05 60',H/DP/2.7"/T/DR's
8.)an0malous,13.30@106.43 w/1.93 60',I/H/DP/E/T/2.8"/WI/CM/WR/DR'S
9.)PatathSS,13.32@105.66 w/2.08 60', I/H/T/2.5"/DR's
10.)black06ss,13.32@111.33 w/2.22 60',I/H/E/CM/2.7"/T/DR's
SS/SC, MODDED, N20 & OTHER POWER ADDERS
1.)06blackg85ss, 12.84@114.90 w/2.05 60' I/E/T/DR/TK/WI/DP/SM
2.)1^up, 13.41@107.03 w/2.18 60' GM2/2.8/CM/A/N2O
2.2 COBALTS, MODDED, NATURALLY ASPIRATED
1.)Blackedoutcoby,15.18@93.61 w/2.50 60',coupe,manual,I/IM/GMH/E/DR
2.)jbenso4,15.22@91.78 w/2.36 60',coupe, manual,I/E/IM/T/P/ST
3.)YellowLT,15.34@89.55 w/2.29 60'coupe,manual,I/E/ST
4.)07cobaltkid,15.35@88.28 w/2.22 60'coupe,manual,I/E/ST
5.)montecarloman,15.40@90.40 w/2.32 60'coupe,manual,TB/GMH/E/ST
6.)05sedan,15.61@87.99 w/2.38 60',sedan,manual, I/TB/E/ST
7.)Delta2.2,15.67@88.11 w/2.25 60',coupe,manual,I/E/GMH/ST
8.)copson20,15.72@90.21 w/2.48 60',coupe,5-speed,I/H/DP/CD/E/T/SM/IM/C/ST
2.2 COBALTS, MODDED WITH POWER ADDERS
1.)YzRider452,13.83@102.43 w/2.35 60',coupe,manual,I/H/DP/E/N20/ST
2.)lil_kano,14.24@98.17 w/2.34 60',sedan,auto,I/IM/TB/H/DP/E/N20/T/WR/SM/CD/ST
3.)RollermanDan,14.69@95.31 w/2.34 60',coupe, manual,I/E/N20/ST
4.)Spanky's Monkey,14.71@93.17 w/2.28 60',sedan,auto,I/GMH/DP/E/N20/T/ST
I'm not bashing 2.2's it's just that your post wasn't accurate.I just don't see how you can say it's nothing crazy like an Evo and that it's not that much faster than a 2.2 when in fact the SS/SC's performance is a whole lot closer to an Evo (esp X's) than the 2.2 is to a SS/SC (obviously all of them being stock just like the previous post).
11-17-2008, 08:41 PM
#44
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I'm not bashing 2.2's it's just that your post wasn't accurate.I just don't see how you can say it's nothing crazy like an Evo and that it's not that much faster than a 2.2 when in fact the SS/SC's performance is a whole lot closer to an Evo (esp X's) than the 2.2 is to a SS/SC (obviously all of them being stock just like the previous post).[/QUOTE]
ok ill make it easy to understand then cuz i think ur looking into it to much im sayin a fully bolted 2.2 can sorta keep up with a stock sssc
ok ill make it easy to understand then cuz i think ur looking into it to much im sayin a fully bolted 2.2 can sorta keep up with a stock sssc
11-17-2008, 11:13 PM
#45
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Here is a members 2.2 that has "full bolt-ons" and it even has cams that I was looking at earlier.
Last edited by Perfect.disguise; 11-17-2008 at 11:16 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
11-17-2008, 11:18 PM
#46
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I do have to agree. A fully bolted 2.2 will not keep up with a stock ss/sc. You would need some more aggressive cams, an 8k+ revlimit, higher compression pistons(11:1 or higher) and a damn good tune.
11-17-2008, 11:43 PM
#47
I too agree that a true bolton modded 2.2 wont hang with a stock SS/SC, but the above dyno graphs dont prove anything.... 2.2 cars are lighter, and have significantly different gearing, thats why a good driver in a Cammed 2.2 can hang with the Average Joe in an SS/SC(that is someone who isnt taking their car to the track regulary, they just happen to own an SS/SC, these are the guys who run high 14's and maybe even 15's, believe it or not it does take a little skill to run mid to low 14s in an LSJ
11-17-2008, 11:56 PM
#48
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I too agree that a true bolton modded 2.2 wont hang with a stock SS/SC, but the above dyno graphs dont prove anything.... 2.2 cars are lighter, and have significantly different gearing, thats why a good driver in a Cammed 2.2 can hang with the Average Joe in an SS/SC(that is someone who isnt taking their car to the track regulary, they just happen to own an SS/SC, these are the guys who run high 14's and maybe even 15's, believe it or not it does take a little skill to run mid to low 14s in an LSJ
Also yes, a 2.2 is geared diff ...it has less agressive gearing.
I wonder why you have to use a really bad driver with a SS/SC compared to a good driver on a 2.2 to try to make it appear closer.
11-18-2008, 08:51 AM
#49
(wheels, brakes, tranny, engine, seats, sunroof, stereo, Onstar, bodykit, spoiler, jheat exchanger/plumbing/pump, rear axle, all heavier)
Yes the gearing is less aggresive, and as we all know, the gearing on the SC is too short.
I didnt use drivers of different skill level to make it appear closer, I used drivers of different skill levels to prove that even a stock SS/SC with a bad driver is gonna be quicker than a fully bolted/cammed 2.2 with a good driver.
In other words: if a poor driver in a bone stock SS/SC can run high 14's, and a skilled driver in a bolted/cammed 2.2 cant then there really isnt a competition is there??
DAMN you 2.0 guys are touchy, do you really loathe the 2.2s that much that you cant even tell when we are on your side?!?!? Did you even read my first sentence?
11-18-2008, 05:49 PM
#50
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a stock SS/SC with a bad driver is gonna be quicker than a fully bolted/cammed 2.2 with a good driver.
In other words: if a poor driver in a bone stock SS/SC can run high 14's, and a skilled driver in a bolted/cammed 2.2 cant then there really isnt a competition is there??
DAMN you 2.0 guys are touchy, do you really loathe the 2.2s that much that you cant even tell when we are on your side?!?!? Did you even read my first sentence?
In other words: if a poor driver in a bone stock SS/SC can run high 14's, and a skilled driver in a bolted/cammed 2.2 cant then there really isnt a competition is there??
DAMN you 2.0 guys are touchy, do you really loathe the 2.2s that much that you cant even tell when we are on your side?!?!? Did you even read my first sentence?