Estimated Gains!?
12-12-2006 | 12:53 AM
#26
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From: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by cobalt25
MANLAW this is the 2OO6 not the 1950s most people just about live in there cars these days cummuting if they did not eat in there car they would not see there families not only that but a car should be able to withstand a few tots here and there that is what a vacuum is for .
after reading that about 4 times, I understand. My rebuttle? it was a joke intended to make you smile...but thank you for your ergonomic views on the current ecomonical and social standpoint of americans that own cars. Oh and for the record, a tot hit my floor and burned right through to the metal.
12-12-2006 | 12:55 AM
#27
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Joined: 05-03-06
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From: Shaw AFB, Sumter, SC.
Originally Posted by campo165
after reading that about 4 times, I understand. My rebuttle? it was a joke intended to make you smile...but thank you for your ergonomic views on the current ecomonical and social standpoint of americans that own cars. Oh and for the record, a tot hit my floor and burned right through to the metal.
12-12-2006 | 12:58 AM
#28
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From: chico
Originally Posted by campo165
after reading that about 4 times, I understand. My rebuttle? it was a joke intended to make you smile...but thank you for your ergonomic views on the current ecomonical and social standpoint of americans that own cars. Oh and for the record, a tot hit my floor and burned right through to the metal.
Back to the thread I seen some 1/4 mile print outs on another a earlier thread and the automatic is faster
12-12-2006 | 12:58 AM
#29
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From: Fort Worth, TX
this explains it a little better..
For illustration's sake: lets say your engine puts out 10 units of power (tourqe, hp, what ever you wanna call it... but i'm calling it 'units of power' just for the sake of an easy illustration).
Ok, your car puts out 10 units of power. In a manual, you loose half a unit of power at the clutch when it's slipping (engaging and disengagin, so that the actual 'clutch' and the flywheel are turning at different speeds, though they are engaged... such a thing happens when your engaging and disengaging a clutch), and another half for 'free' turning the other gears (all the gears turn in a manual, but the ones that arn't engaged free turn... so very little power is lost). So, you loose 1 unit of power total. That means that your wheels are getting 9 units of power.
Ok, with an auto (lets see if I can remember this):
Your engine still puts out 10 units of power. But, you loose half a unit at the planetary gear set, you loose half a unit at the hydraulic pump, you loose half a unit at the pistons in the tranny. So, you loose a total of 1.5 units of power.
Now, that isn't proportional. Like I said, it's for the sake of illustration.
In larger vehicles, you won't notice that power drop much at all, if any.
BUT, in smaller vehicles (like the Scion Xb or a Saturn Ion.. both which I have driven with auto and manual tranmissions) you DO tend to notice the loss of power in an auto compared to a manual.
Why? They have so little HP anyway (though the Saturn Ion has 140, it's auto tranny is pathetic compared to the stick shift), that you can feel the extra power. Another thing, since most auto tranny's only have 4 gear ratios, and stick shifts have 5, you have an 'easier' climb to get to higer speed. Imagine you have to lift a heavy box of a filght of steps. Would it be easier to lift it up 4 steps with a lot of height between them, or would it be easier to lift it up 5 steps (to cover the same height difference) with less height between them?
Uh huh. The 5 steps makes it a little less work on you going up those steps! Same with a auto vs. manual.
Ok, your car puts out 10 units of power. In a manual, you loose half a unit of power at the clutch when it's slipping (engaging and disengagin, so that the actual 'clutch' and the flywheel are turning at different speeds, though they are engaged... such a thing happens when your engaging and disengaging a clutch), and another half for 'free' turning the other gears (all the gears turn in a manual, but the ones that arn't engaged free turn... so very little power is lost). So, you loose 1 unit of power total. That means that your wheels are getting 9 units of power.
Ok, with an auto (lets see if I can remember this):
Your engine still puts out 10 units of power. But, you loose half a unit at the planetary gear set, you loose half a unit at the hydraulic pump, you loose half a unit at the pistons in the tranny. So, you loose a total of 1.5 units of power.
Now, that isn't proportional. Like I said, it's for the sake of illustration.
In larger vehicles, you won't notice that power drop much at all, if any.
BUT, in smaller vehicles (like the Scion Xb or a Saturn Ion.. both which I have driven with auto and manual tranmissions) you DO tend to notice the loss of power in an auto compared to a manual.
Why? They have so little HP anyway (though the Saturn Ion has 140, it's auto tranny is pathetic compared to the stick shift), that you can feel the extra power. Another thing, since most auto tranny's only have 4 gear ratios, and stick shifts have 5, you have an 'easier' climb to get to higer speed. Imagine you have to lift a heavy box of a filght of steps. Would it be easier to lift it up 4 steps with a lot of height between them, or would it be easier to lift it up 5 steps (to cover the same height difference) with less height between them?
Uh huh. The 5 steps makes it a little less work on you going up those steps! Same with a auto vs. manual.
12-12-2006 | 01:02 AM
#30
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From: chico
Originally Posted by D4u2s0t
in theory? no, you're not wrong... but, lots of people that drive manual cobalts are not very good drivers... a good driver with a manual will take anyone with an auto... shitty manual driver, and i'd give the race to the auto...
in theory, that is ass backwards, and i'm probably talking out of my ass because i'm going on no sleep, and should have been in bed hours ago...
in theory, that is ass backwards, and i'm probably talking out of my ass because i'm going on no sleep, and should have been in bed hours ago...
IF A FROG HAD WING'S IT WOULD NOT BUMP HIS ASS EVERY TIME IT HOPPED
12-12-2006 | 02:37 AM
#33
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From: Moncton canada
hahaha well first of all its all about respect. If he drops taters in the car, he picks them up. If he deosnt, i'll tell him to pick them up. I mean comme on, respect for me/the car. Have you ever been with someone in your car and the windows are all fogged up and they clean it with their oily hands. Next damn day I have to go clean that.... pisses me off. Or they keep pocking the window with their hands and it leaves hand prints. Might just be my weird friends, but I bet someone can relate
On a 2nd note, a 4speed auto cant fallow a 5speed stick if the driver can shift to save his life. I am sorry but I am preatty sure I can power shift just as fast as a cobalt tranny. Cobalt trannies arent made for high performance shifting, so yeah I'll take it on any time. So you are left with a 4speed, lower whp, and slower shifting car, how is that faster?? Sorry no disrespect to you auto owners out there, but stick is just faster/funner. Dude you are buying a new SS, do yourself a favor and buy stick if you like it. You will learn fast and wont regret it after the first couple of weeks. Give yourself 2 weeks and you should be zooming around town, not a pro, but zooming.
On a 2nd note, a 4speed auto cant fallow a 5speed stick if the driver can shift to save his life. I am sorry but I am preatty sure I can power shift just as fast as a cobalt tranny. Cobalt trannies arent made for high performance shifting, so yeah I'll take it on any time. So you are left with a 4speed, lower whp, and slower shifting car, how is that faster?? Sorry no disrespect to you auto owners out there, but stick is just faster/funner. Dude you are buying a new SS, do yourself a favor and buy stick if you like it. You will learn fast and wont regret it after the first couple of weeks. Give yourself 2 weeks and you should be zooming around town, not a pro, but zooming.
12-12-2006 | 02:53 AM
#34
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From: chico
Originally Posted by martinsmu
hahaha well first of all its all about respect. If he drops taters in the car, he picks them up. If he deosnt, i'll tell him to pick them up. I mean comme on, respect for me/the car. Have you ever been with someone in your car and the windows are all fogged up and they clean it with their oily hands. Next damn day I have to go clean that.... pisses me off. Or they keep pocking the window with their hands and it leaves hand prints. Might just be my weird friends, but I bet someone can relate
On a 2nd note, a 4speed auto cant fallow a 5speed stick if the driver can shift to save his life. I am sorry but I am preatty sure I can power shift just as fast as a cobalt tranny. Cobalt trannies arent made for high performance shifting, so yeah I'll take it on any time. So you are left with a 4speed, lower whp, and slower shifting car, how is that faster?? Sorry no disrespect to you auto owners out there, but stick is just faster/funner. Dude you are buying a new SS, do yourself a favor and buy stick if you like it. You will learn fast and wont regret it after the first couple of weeks. Give yourself 2 weeks and you should be zooming around town, not a pro, but zooming.
On a 2nd note, a 4speed auto cant fallow a 5speed stick if the driver can shift to save his life. I am sorry but I am preatty sure I can power shift just as fast as a cobalt tranny. Cobalt trannies arent made for high performance shifting, so yeah I'll take it on any time. So you are left with a 4speed, lower whp, and slower shifting car, how is that faster?? Sorry no disrespect to you auto owners out there, but stick is just faster/funner. Dude you are buying a new SS, do yourself a favor and buy stick if you like it. You will learn fast and wont regret it after the first couple of weeks. Give yourself 2 weeks and you should be zooming around town, not a pro, but zooming.
You must just be a pro every one else is just an ameture.
Not to mention you are as fast as a computer if only someday I can shift like you.
P.S. Be sure to let us all know when you put your first clutch in.
12-12-2006 | 07:46 AM
#35
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From: NY
see this is the thing. if im going to go with stick im gonna go with a 2.0SS/SC. but there are no 2007's around here, all of my friends cars that are heavily modded w/ 2.5 pulleys n such are breaking down or havin some problems. well all went to the track on time and 3 cars broke down that were all ss/sc. and yes wheelhop is a major issuse in that car. and gm has a letter out around here not to fix any 05-07 cars with a problem w/ there tranny or axels, just to claim driver abuse. so that my reasonin for not goin with the 07 ss/sc plus i cant afford 400 bucks a month plus insurance and all that other crap. so thats why im gonna go w/ the 2.4 SS. i drove one in auto and i was blown away. i had a 2.2 and its a total different car. im not sure if i want a new car and have to deal w/ the clutch ,tranny, whatever issue. i rather get a POS and learn stick on then save up while i have my car and then get a new camaro in 6spd. and yeah all my friends cars i would learn on but most of them are down...soo thats no good. so lets say i due tune. cant i change alot ofthings with the tranny to shift harder n such? so should whp be greater if i can?
12-12-2006 | 12:27 PM
#37
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From: NY
and stick blows dick in New york traffic...this is one fact that is way to true. dont get me wrong i dont need a fast car that i can hit 120mph in a few seconds. i was just trying to get a idea bout if i were to mod a ss 2.4 what would be the gains. this isnt a fight over stick or auto. so if anyone actually does know...CAI, gmpp header,c/a 2.5 downpipe,gmpp perf. cat back exhaust and a tune. what will this do for a 2.4?
12-12-2006 | 01:02 PM
#38
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Joined: 12-18-05
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From: North Jersey
Originally Posted by iLLmaTic3s
and stick blows dick in New york traffic...this is one fact that is way to true. dont get me wrong i dont need a fast car that i can hit 120mph in a few seconds. i was just trying to get a idea bout if i were to mod a ss 2.4 what would be the gains. this isnt a fight over stick or auto. so if anyone actually does know...CAI, gmpp header,c/a 2.5 downpipe,gmpp perf. cat back exhaust and a tune. what will this do for a 2.4?
12-12-2006 | 06:54 PM
#41
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From: chico
Originally Posted by iLLmaTic3s
see this is the thing. if im going to go with stick im gonna go with a 2.0SS/SC. but there are no 2007's around here, all of my friends cars that are heavily modded w/ 2.5 pulleys n such are breaking down or havin some problems. well all went to the track on time and 3 cars broke down that were all ss/sc. and yes wheelhop is a major issuse in that car. and gm has a letter out around here not to fix any 05-07 cars with a problem w/ there tranny or axels, just to claim driver abuse. so that my reasonin for not goin with the 07 ss/sc plus i cant afford 400 bucks a month plus insurance and all that other crap. so thats why im gonna go w/ the 2.4 SS. i drove one in auto and i was blown away. i had a 2.2 and its a total different car. im not sure if i want a new car and have to deal w/ the clutch ,tranny, whatever issue. i rather get a POS and learn stick on then save up while i have my car and then get a new camaro in 6spd. and yeah all my friends cars i would learn on but most of them are down...soo thats no good. so lets say i due tune. cant i change alot ofthings with the tranny to shift harder n such? so should whp be greater if i can?
12-12-2006 | 10:25 PM
#46
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Joined: 09-24-06
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From: arkansas
sorry guys but i bought an automatic, sedan SS for the fact I HAVE A KID ON THE WAY, did you ever think about that????plus the loss of HP is within 2-5 HP between manual and auto, just look up some of the auto dyno numbers, there NO DIFFERENT when modded. well i guess i did buy the car for the wife. but still even a GREAT manual transmission driver can **** up, so ill take consistancy, plus i live in a town with 60,000 people and have to largest retailer in the world home office so you can imagine the traphic. dont knock autos or sedans or coupes or 2.2, 2.4, 2.0's THERE ALL GREAT CARS, THERE IS A REASON CHEVY MADE THAT MANY DIFFERENT MODELS OF THE COBALT, TO SERVE ALL DIFFERENT TYPES OF FOLKS NEEDS
2.2- Young crowd, not alot of $, or value
2.4ss- For The family or driver that wants preformance at a low cost in a auto or 4 door or both
2.0ss/sc- for the tuner's, people with a little more money and no kids. . . yet
encourage iLLmaTic3s to get whatever cobalt suits him best nuff said
as to power your looking at 170WHP with ALL bolt-ons and a good tune
cams and more tuning mabee 190-200WHP??????????????????? MIKE?????????????
2.2- Young crowd, not alot of $, or value
2.4ss- For The family or driver that wants preformance at a low cost in a auto or 4 door or both
2.0ss/sc- for the tuner's, people with a little more money and no kids. . . yet
encourage iLLmaTic3s to get whatever cobalt suits him best nuff said
as to power your looking at 170WHP with ALL bolt-ons and a good tune
cams and more tuning mabee 190-200WHP??????????????????? MIKE?????????????
12-12-2006 | 11:43 PM
#47
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Joined: 10-08-05
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From: Fort Worth, TX
Originally Posted by Cipher117
i've read where dragsters of today are automatic so i wouldnt be so hasty to put down the automatics
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