That's not doing the same damn bolt ons! Comparing apples to oranges. Bottum line, same mods done do not make the cars equal, full bolt on 2.2 is about the same as a stock 2.4 so unless a 2.4 gains nothing from bolt ons which we know it does, then your statement just doesn't make sense

 

Bolt on's are anything you can bolt to the outside of the motor. The best N/A intake manifold out there is the stock 2.4 manifold right now. So it already has it bolted on.

 

I see no point in arguing with you, your trying to say 2.2's respond to boltons better then 2.4's which is the dumbest thing i have heard.

 

I don't think he is saying that if you think about it there are more bolt ons for the 2.2's and why is that its because like the hondas there are millions of them 96% of all cobalts are 2.2l 2% 2.4 and 2% 2.0, I can't remeber where I read that but that's s why there aren't many options for a 2.4l its kinda the red headed step child out of all the cobalts not slow but not the fastest my auto 2.4l with intake and catback beat a 2.2 5 speedl with intake header and catback by about a car so the 2.4l is fatser no doubt. I think the most na on a 2.2 yeilded around 190 to the wheels. And the honda civic si has 190 on the motor yea but it has no torque so in most street races where its a quick little run a 2.2 should beat the si

 

M62 kit is bolt on. 2.4's love the boost better than the 2.2's :P

And there we get back to the real answer from this thread. N/A builds on Ecotec's are EXPENSIVE relative to what you can get from boost. The fact that the LE5 seems to hold up well to moderate amounts of boost doesn't hurt the fact that you'll have more HP and go faster with a turbo or supercharger kit than you ever could with an N/A build and you'd spend 1/2 the cost to do it.

 

Which is why I'm debating a cheap turbo setup / M62. Then again I want a 240 so I can get sideways as well. I'm slowly not becoming a fan of FWD anymore, actually I dont think I was ever a fan, it just kind of happened.

 

I think this is right???

I = Intake
H = Header
DP = Downpipe
E =??
T = Tune
IM = Intake Manifold
TB = Throttle Body

 

I like how everyone ignored my sensible post(not trying to pick a fight fyi)

 

I don't think anyone is ever a "fan" of FWD. It's more of the ability to afford getting into the car and working with what you've got.

When I bought my Cobalt, I never expected to modify it. I bought it to be a gas-sipping DD alternative to the Jeep. But 2 years after I bought it I attended my first AutoX and the rest is history, as they say...

Fixed

 

Grats on post number 5000. Lol

 

****. I'm a post *****.

 

LMAO

if im not mistaken a stock 2.2 has about 15 more torque than a K20Z3

 

Thanks

 

GM performance did a prototype LE5 N/A race engine in a cobalt a few years ago. It made like 350 at the crank......however all the info about it has vanished.

 

Bolded for emphasis. That'll most likely mean that the block is loosely based on the LE5 and that there would be far more work and $$ in that short block than any of us spent to buy our cars...

 

True from the description it sounds like everything was changed except the block itself.

 

Incorrect. the 2.4s frequently put down more power. It takes 2.2s with cams to get closer to the bolt on status of the 2.4s.

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/dyno-results-170/official-dyno-thread-take-two-114719/

 

Nothing I hate more than Dyno runs to try to prove a point...Horsey power on a graph is one thing -- times on a dragstrip are better representations -- but neither is good unless the cars are at the same dragstrip or the same dyno at the same time so there is no difference in temperature or humidity.

These times are from the dragstrip forum 1/8th mile first and 1/4 mile second:

1/8th mile:

LE5, STOCK, THE WAY IT IS FROM THE FACTORY
1.)UnLimiTed,10.07@69.41 w/2.27 60',coupe,5-speed,Timeslip Vid


LE5, MODDED, NATURALLY ASPIRATED
1.)Dunkinuts,9.59@74.33 w/2.26 60',coupe,5-speed,I/SM/ST Timeslip Video
2.)davekicksyourass, 9.614@74.62 w/2.225 60', sedan, Auto, I/E/H/DP/CD/T/SM/ST Timeslip VID
3.)Zdeuce4, 9.897@72.88 w/2.367 60', Coupe, 5-speed, I/H/CD/E/T/SM/ST Timeslip Vid
4.)Red07SSNA, 10.076@72.06 w/2.41 60', coupe, Auto, I/GMH/E/ST/T Timeslip PIC
5.)Viper33884, 10.096@73.43 w/2.403 60', coupe, 5-speed, I/H/SM/ST Timeslip
6.)elecblue06, 10.146@74.08 w/2.449 60', ion, 5-speed, SM/H/DP/E/T/ST Timeslip PIC

L61/LAP, STOCK, THE WAY IT IS FROM THE FACTORY
1.)cjlee07,10.59@67.58 w/2.42 60',coupe,manual Timeslip Pic


L61/LAP, MODDED, (NATURALLY ASPIRATED)
1.) dmoney8187, 9.661@72.78mph, w/2.252 60', coupe, manual, I/H/DP/E/TB/IM/T/WR/SM/ST Timeslip PIC
2.) NWAE Cobalt, 9.743@74.55 w/ 2.347 60' I/IM/C/TB/H/DP/CD/E/ST/T/SM/WR/P Timeslip VID
3.) FASTL61, 9.997@72.12mph, w/2.353 60', coupe, maunual, I/H/E/DP/CD/WR Timeslip PIC
4.) copson20,10.23@69.93mph, w/2.48 60',coupe,5-speed,I/H/DP/CD/E/T/SM/IM/C/ST Timeslip Vid

1/4 mile:

LE5, MODDED, NATURALLY ASPIRATED
1.) redssna,14.536@95.29 w/2.069 60',coupe, 5-speed, I/H/DP/E/T/SM/WR/DS VID Timeslip
2.) Dunkinuts,14.87@93.26 w/2.26 60',coupe,5-speed,I/SM/ST Timeslip Video
3.) BULLETSSMOKE,14.91@96.62 w/2.26 60',coupe,5-speed,I/H/DP/E/T/ST
4.) davekicksyourass, 14.954@90.95 w/2.225 60', sedan, Auto, I/E/H/DP/CD/T/SM/ST Timeslip VID
5.) MARIN007,15.04@92.80 w/2.19 60',coupe, 5-speed, I/E/ST
6.) elecblue06, 15.083@94.91 w/2.408 60', ion, 5-speed, I/SM/H/DP/E/T/ST Timeslip PIC
7.) thekingsSS,15.08@94.47 w/2.31 60',coupe,5-speed, I/H/E/T/ST
8.) GTP,15.17@92.33 w/2.35 60',sedan, 5-speed,I/T/ST
9.) PpAzZ1101,15.33@90.27 w/2.30 60',coupe, auto, I/E/T/CD/ST
10.) Zdeuce4, 15.5378@93.21 w/2.5238 60', Coupe, 5-speed, I/H/CD/E/T/SM/ST Timeslip Vid


L61/LAP, MODDED, NATURALLY ASPIRATED
1.)huckernage, 14.258@94.65mph w/1.999 60', Ion Sedan, 5-speed, I/DP/E/WR/DS/SM/T Timeslips PIC
2.)dmoney8187, 14.788@93.65, w/2.259 60', coupe, manual, I/H/DP/E/TB/IM/T/WR/SM/ST Timeslip VID
3.)NWAE Cobalt, 14.951@94.65 w/ 2.347 60' I/IM/C/TB/H/DP/CD/E/ST/T/SM/WR/P Timeslip VID
4.)Blackedoutcoby,15.18@93.61 w/2.50 60',coupe,manual,I/IM/GMH/E/DR
5.)jbenso4,15.22@91.78 w/2.36 60',coupe, manual,I/E/IM/T/P/ST
6.)YellowLT,15.34@89.55 w/2.29 60'coupe,manual,I/E/ST
7.)07cobaltkid,15.35@88.28 w/2.22 60'coupe,manual,I/E/ST
8.)FASTL61, 15.401@89.43 w/2.353 60', coupe, maunual, I/H/E/DP/CD/WR/ST Timeslip PIC
9.)montecarloman,15.40@90.40 w/2.32 60'coupe,manual,TB/GMH/E/ST
10.)05sedan,15.61@87.99 w/2.38 60',sedan,manual, I/TB/E/ST

Not that big of a difference...

 

This is true but don't forget there are variances at the strip too. Typically the cars run about the same at the strip due to the unnoticed differences between the to models.

 

Notice. RedSSNA holds top 2.4 spot and Dmoney8187 holds second place spot for 2.2's. Well there both my friends. They race all the time. They're dead even till mid third when the 2.4 ever so slightly starts to pull ahead. They've raced many times. Now why is the 2.4 faster on that list, because he has drag radials where as the 2.2 had street tires.

 

ok guys, this thread has officially been derailed.

For the record this wasn't a nitrous, turbo, yada-yada thread, this was asking about why i don't see any 2.4L naturally aspirated builds.

I read all those E/T's before, and didn't really need to have them copied here.

Thanks for those of you who responded on topic.

 

you could look at it that way...or you could keep in mind that stock vs stock the honda has a 20tq disadvantage. civic SI's are mid-low 15 second cars, and there are plenty of 2.2's in the 15's, some of which are stock

As for the OP, the fastest N/A ecotec is a 325hp 2.4L. This motor is not daily driveable...runs on E85 IIRC, and costs more than your car.
why drop $10k into an NA engine when you can drop $2k and make more power with a compressor?

 

We don't have the heads that the Honda's have. That is a huge huge huge part of it. With the large ports they have, it's really easy to start making easy horsepower up top. With a large port head like the Honda's, the LE5 would probably do pretty decent at horsepower gains.

Ecotec heads are just not well designed for horsepower. They were concerned about daily driving and torque.

Here's stock and CNC ported head flow numbers for LSJ. Not quite L61 or LE5 head numbers, but should be close enough for this comparison.



Now lets look at a stock K20A2 head.

A good starting head with factory cams designed for the RPM use defiantly helps. Again, K20 heads in this example also have much larger ports which help keep up air velocity in the upper RPMs.

 

How about a lsj TB on the 2.4 .... you missed that one out

so your list should say: I/H/DP/E/TB/T

 

I'm a big fan of n/a builds. Like to be different. I have been interested to see what the LE5 could do when done right. I'm working with Vince to go E85 on mine and see what we can pull.


On anther note, have you guys seen the new LAF motor. 182hp and 172tq are good starting point numbers. Direct injection makes it easy to bump up hp and this motor is stronger then the LE5 along with a higher compression ratio. Sad the Cobalt or Cruise never got it.