What do yall think about it? With hahns pushing the 2.4 up to 342hp or somewhere around there and maybe even more what do yall think about swapping the 4t45e tranny with the 4t65 tranny thats in the ECOTEC build book. Cuz I know our automatics probably would only take up to 28whp and I'm planning on getting my 2.4 up to 340-360whp like hahns getting right now. Yes I know it will cost a nice penny or two lol but I have hook ups with GM(friend works in parts dept. and get me discounts .

 

Hahn is doing 342 hp on stock internals and feel they will hold up. I think the SS/SC is almost obsolete.

 

for how long will the internals hold up at 342hp not to metion your axles and tranny. I still belive the ss s/c can be made faster for less coin

 

 

Exactly. Not to rain on anyones parade but why are people spending all this money on non SCs when they could have just bought an SS/SC? I just don't get it.

 

The SS/SC sucks. AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

 

x10

 

Care to explain briefly? I'd love to see one potential build and budget for our car

 

the ss/sc has the advantage of being supercharged so it responds to mods alot better

HOWEVER, if you factor in the cost of the car with the performance mods you really aren't spending any less than a 2.2 or 2.4 guy trying to make their car perform.

 

What I'd like to know is if it would be a direct swap, or if things would have to be custom fabricated to make it fit. Anyone know?

 

however for the money it costs to get up to a stage 2 ss s/c power you might have well just bought one from the dealership IMO. Also if we are snappin axles you guys will as well not to mention the factory autos will explode. That said Modding anything is fun so start with the best platform you can afford and start spending

 

Thats why I put up the idea of swapping it out with the 4t65 transmission and building it to hold up to 600hp.


From what they show on the GM sport compact performance build book all you need is an adapter plate to mount the 4t65e to the ecotec motor. As for tranny mounts it doesn't mention anything unless I didn't see it on there.

 

you my friend, have answered you're own question... sure, it may be better to start with a ss/sc, but not everyone can afford one from the start... so we'll mod our 2.2's...

 

Agreed!!

 

Also I wish they had a step by step thing for the swap if someone decides to do this

 

i agree with what D4 said. However, i don't understand it when someone buys a lesser car and has PLANS to go above and beyond. Of course, maybe they want to run a turbo or bigger SC instead of the M62.

 

Hows the 2.4 a lesser car besides that it doesn't have a supercharger on it?

 

Please remain on topic. The question is whether a trans swap is feasible or possible. Not if the SS/SC is a better car.

Putting a 4t65 trans into the Cobalt is a HUGE ordeal. The build does in fact show the use of completely new solid mounts for the powertrain. These mounts move the engine forward in the engine bay. Relocating a number of small items in the engine becomes necessary.

At 350 horse power, you will do much better with a built 4t45e. This is what I have already done in anticipation of that kind of power. I retain my stock feel, I can tune it using HPTuners (yes, I can tune the trans) and I only spent half as much as you are thinking about doing.

 

Someone get a hold of the cobalt phase 5 team, and get their exact recipe for their 500hp...it's in the build book...all of it...so order the parts and go...

 

anybody know the website?

 

excatly...

 

maybe some people want to be different

 

you would need a new tranny mount (s) and some kind of adaptor plate i dont think it will bolt up to the ecotec

 

I totally agree with 1/2
Now that HP Tuners will allow you to tune the shift feel and shift points, TCC lockup and TQ managment, there's no reason not to attempt to get as much out of the 4T45E as you can. What many people dont realize is the 4T40E was constantly improved from about 1997 on allowing it to be used with more and more HP when it came to be known as the 4T45E.Up until this year it was actually used very reliably in the Saturn L-series behind the DOHC V6 L81 pushing 210HP and 270 NM !!
Hydramatic is KNOWN for their conservative TQ ratings on their transaxles.

The Phase 5 4T65E is for a full-out race car only. There's no EASY way to just swap it in without all sorts of fitment issues to be solved, including axle issues (65E doesnt use an intermediate shaft or equal length 1/2 shafts)Sure, if money's no object... go right ahead, but certainly the "built" 65E is overkill for a street car.

Plus the Cobalt's Transmission Control Module will not easily be adapt to the 65E even WITH HPT support. This is because the up/downshift solenoid logic is totally different (4T65E= 11, 01, 00, 10 and the 4T45E is 10, 00,01,11) and the Line pressure control solenoid uses a totally different base frequency.

There ARE plenty of aftermarket companies (Raybestos/Blueplate for one) that ALREADY offer improved clutch pistons, seals and plates (for every clutch) and HD bands and sprags for the 45E. My advice would be to add additional cooling/fluid volume, new fluid and maybe a fresh filter and see what lets go behind a turbo 2.4 (if anything at all) AND find someone that is familiar using HPT on the Autos (usually the V8 tuners) to help set her up for maximum holding power.

THEN IF you run into failures- hook up with a decent local performance transmission shop to identify the root failure and start sourcing or creating improved parts. This is how it's been done forever.I mean the input housing and shaft could certainly be hardend locally for a couple hundered $$ but why not wait to see if that's what fails. If a clutch smokes you look for ways to improve it's application path and use better plate materials (already available thru companies like Raybestos) OR look to add additional fibre plates into the clutch by having some custom apply plate machining done (done it myself not that expensive)

The 7/8" CHAIN might just be a "weak link" (no pun intended)- but THERE ARE ways to adapt other beefier parts (shortened 65E?) into just about any automatic trans, and I'd be surprised if there wasnt a larger single cog chain and sprockets already available for the 45E. Same thing goes for a higher stall and brazed TQ converter.

So for any of you that are SERIOUS about just going for it to boost up the 2.4 A4 , just know you can count on whatever techncial support you require from this guy over here.

WopOnTour

PS>Here's an aftermarket parts book for Raybestos to get you started. Later I'll post up the THM Techncians guide for the 4T45E in PDF. (If only someone could RAISE my damn upload limit )


Here's some other online resources that might come in handy
http://www.transbuilder.com/
http://www.transtec.com/trans_new_products.htm
http://www.transgo.com/transgocatalog0206.pdf
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/cindex.asp
http://www.morsetec.com/Hy-vo.pdf
http://www.atraonline.com/events/sem...minar_info.asp
http://www.atraonline.com/source/Orders/index.cfm
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/highperflist.htm
http://www.altousa.com/catalogs.htm
http://www.transtec.com/npa_trans/Trans-NPA0208.pdf
http://www.acerecon.com/catalog/auto...eries.asp?t=13
http://www.spxfiltran.com/products/Lookup/Default.asp

 

the website for the build book is gmtunersource.net