I haven't seen anyone use a TVS on an LE5 motor with proof, or a dyno run yet. I saw another thread but it was FULL of B.S. about some dude......and not much about a TVS LE5 set-up. ZZP's car is running a healthy amount of boost on their turbo car without blowing it up. I was wondering what you guys thought of someone LEGITIMATELY using a TVS blower onto an LE5 powered car using either the ZZP M62 kit (with no blower) or piecing together their own kit with good cooling mods. Turbos are pretty efficient when intercooled and everyone keeps talking about how there are lower boost limits on the LE5 with the M62 on it.....but what about using the larger TVS blower on the LE5 running LESS actual boost? That would keep the TVS in it's efficiency range and still make good power on pump gas....just like keeping a turbo in it's efficiency range and cooled....
What do you guys think? I've seen a few M62 powered LE5 cars out there.....whats the average pulley size that you guys run? Do you guys get KR problems with every day pump gas? Just kinda throwing the idea out there for a LEGITIMATE discussion....if anyone is interested in discussing whether or not the M62 can even be taken OUT of it's efficiency range on the LE5 on a street car enough to warrant or allow the TVS to be a viable option on a pump gas street car....with the stock TVS pulley how much CFM compared to the M62 is the TVS pushing, and is it more efficient than that M62 at the slower/lower blower speed?
What do you guys think?

 

ross shady

 

Every thread that involves that kid's build goes to **** every time.....I wanted to start a thread where people actually talked about the set-up instead of one of the dudes posting up. That kid's build was missing a bunch of things that maybe we can discuss in THIS thread without it turning into a FIFTY page thread about talking crap and maybe two pages of actual information. Hahn did a couple of things to their Kappa car to get it to dyno as high as it did if I remember correctly.....two of the things that I remember were a thicker head gasket and aftermarket valve springs.....
That thread was retarded and ruined with BS.....lets talk about the potential of this set-up....we know the whole forged rods thing and the issues with those....now lets talk glass half full....
for instance if the car had a thicker head gasket, and better valve springs....
one of the things that I notice throughout that thread with shady was all of the talk about horsepower and NOTHING about TORQUE! The 2.4 has larger displacement and should make more bottom end torque than the M62 powered LSJ cars.....
if the TVS 2.4 has a good TQ band but less PEAK HP......no one would ever know....because it wasnt mentioned in that 55 page thread.....
I'm not trying to attack ya man by ANY means....just sayin what I thought of that whole shady thread.....absolute garbage....sometimes FUNNY...but absolute garbage as far as information, and what could have perfected that set-up......

 

I'm really debating the build as well. Also with my new job, I think this could happen sonner than I thought. First off, if you consider it he got what 270whp(correct me if I'm wrong) on a stock pulley. Me with my M62 on stock pulley got 227whp, and 198wtq. thats around +40.... as for tq well he never mentioned it.

Back to my build, later in the summer or fall time... I'm gonna take off my head and send it to a machine shop to get pnp, and install my new patriot performance complete valvetrain with +1mm valves. When it is reinstalled, I will also be installing my meth kit that I have here in my room. Later on I plan on using the Import Performance Transmission rebuild kit and possibly high stall tc to beef up the tranny. Then after that I want to install the TVS(with smaller pulley).

 

That was something that I was wondering....Torque....if your car is making 227whp and 200wtq....on a stock sized M62 pulley thats a decent amount of power for just a blower swap....I wonder how small of a pulley that you could go on a daily driver with that ported head and good valve spring combo....What's the smallest pulley that you've seen on a street LE5 car with a well cooled M62 on it...IE no meth or E85.....
I saw in someone's sig that they trap 104mph in the 1/4 with an M62 on an LE5 car....and if I remember correctly it was an auto car also....with traction that would be a mid to low 13 second car....if he makes around 250whp because he has the same set-up as you but with a smaller pulley....there could be a LOT left on the table with a ported head, a good set of valve springs...or even if the size pulley that he uses on that 104mph run isn't even at the end of that pump gas set-up...and I'm actually gonna look into how many of those LE5 solstices had someone put a thicker head gasket on them to lower their compression...
I also saw in that thread where people kept on trying to compare how many pounds of boost with the TVS and the M62 there was in question.....just like was said....you cant compare the two blowers with boost psi....the way to compare them would be CFM VS pulley size.....what I mean is how much CFM comes out of each blower per revolution of EACH pulley.....that would show you how much of a CFM difference there was when dealing with pulley size on each blower.....and that seems like it would give you a good comparison between the two blowers.....
I wonder what a manual car with some traction would do with that 270whp, and who knows how much TQ at the wheels.....I wonder if (with traction or drag radials) that much power would put an LE5 car into the 12's......on pump gas....the kind of TQ that the LE5 makes along with how BROAD that TQ curve is COULD do it with that TVS on it....
That kid never got the car tuned well or all of his problems worked out either....who knows.....maybe there was more left on that table with that stock pulley...or even if he was able to use a smaller pulley on pump gas but couldn't because the bugs and tune were not worked out....

 

All else equal, your boost per pulley size should be less than on an LSJ. Also, your IAT2 should be lower because of that loss of restriction. If you can figure out a magical cam settings, that will also help. I don't think the static compression ratio will hurt too much if you get the cam and spark timing settings right. Water/meth would be a must IMO.

FWIW, i'm building a hybrid LE5 bottom end/ ported/cammed L61 top end for my jbody. That combination puts the static C/R at about 11:1. It will be TVS supercharged. I expect to start with a large pulley, something like 3.3-3.4", and work down from there. 300whp or maxed 60lb/hr injectors, which ever comes first.

 

just found this on that dude's photobucket....wonder if this is the sheet from the final pull or just one of the ones that was done while bugs were being worked out....

check out the TQ at the wheels.....




I'm not really familiar with the variable valve timing, but I wonder if the cams are adjusted at a "fixed" and linear rate for the overlap or if you could adjust them in the tune like lock them into the lower amount of overlap "phase" or timing setting....that way you could almost port the head and then leave it along because the cams are more boost friendly and aren't running a bunch of overlap bleeding the boost out the exhaust side.....

 

have you considered twincharging instead of just putting on a tvs? you could run a stage 2 m62 with small turbo (maybe stock LNF turbo) and easily push into the 350 range, are you auto or manual?

 

Twincharging is cool and all but it's not exactly for everyone as far as tunning....some people have blown up thier cars playing with that kind of stuff....one guy did it here in the town I live in...dunno his screen name....but was running one of the dudes I work with's SRT-4 and blew the motor...its a cool set-up and all....lots of power....
I think an LE5 motor with LOWER compression pistons and a ported head would make GOOD power, and probrably over 350whp or close to 400 whp.....I bet a car with that bottom end and a good ported head would make between 300-350 for tq at the wheels....as long as you have someone who can tune it with the VVT....I bet it would make that kind of power WITHOUT E85 or meth.....
I know that tunning that VVT motor would be a little different than tunning an L61 or an LSJ......not some kind of CRAZY difference....but some of the people who tune those motors might not have found ALL of the little tricks involved with tunning a VVT motor
maaaaaybe one of the Honda shops that is WAY familiar with the ins and outs of VVT and other honda systems could do a decent job of doing a live tune on it......maybe even bring some of thier Honda knowledge to the table with the LE5 tunning....

 

I had thought of doing that, but everyone I've spoken to said I might as well just turbo

 

I have and 08 LE5 running a M62, a 2.9" pulley, and 3" downpipe and exhaust, and I'm only seeing about 10 - 12 psi, though I'm still in the tuning process.

 

Dont know but it sounds like too much boost on a stock LE5 Block!

 

might as well just turbo man. im getting a dyno done soon. most turbo 2.4s at 10-12 psi are in the 290-310whp range and 300+ tq. its sooo easy to get those numbers with turbo that using anything else is almost a waste of cash.

 

What does a TVS boost on the lsj's with the stock pulley? 18 psi? Also a m62 with a 2.9" on a cobalt boosts maybe 16 - 17 psi. So a TVS on an LE5 will probably be at around the same boost I'm seeing, but more cfm's.

 

Hit the nail on the head and im not sure what the reliability of anything over 12.5 psi of boost is on that motor as the internals are not forged or met for forced induction.

 

Zdeuce4....when you say 300wtq...how FAT is that TQ curve? Like what RPM to what RPM is that set up over 300? I have seen a few built ecotec cars with big turbos....they make great PEAK power but not a long curve of it....the blower curves for torque are long and fat...you have INSTANT torque with the blower...and even though a turbo kit has more PEAK power....a blower car with a TQ curve that may be LOWER peak wise...but with a MUCH higher AVERAGE TQ curve over idle....that's how quite a few high HP/TQ turbo cars (peak power) get walked by blower cars that make more average power....because the motor on the blower isn't wasting any of it's RPM's on spooling up....it makes boost as soon as your in it....there isn't a gap in the rpms from when you hit it to when the motor makes USEABLE or comparable power to the blower....know what I mean..

 

If you look at it in terms of power, Hahn has proven these bottom ends are good to something near 400hp. So, as long as your source of forced induction is not stressed to hell to make those numbers, it should hold up. I'm hoping a TVS with a 3.4" pulley gets me in the mid 200s, and a 3.1" gets me in the high 200s.

 

Then you shouldn't have any problems then. Good luck with the upgrades!

 

the 2.4 in stock form with a proper turbo has a phenomenal tq curve.

go look at cherry gt's dyno. its on the official dyno thread.

ive ran a few s/c deltas and have beaten them all. as well as a g8 gt, mustang gt etc..

i wish i had a vid of it but i ran my buddy at the track.. he has an hhr with tune, dp, elec cutout and drag radials and i pull him hard from midrange to topend. my tq is pretty nice from there and im only running 10 psi. 2.4s respond very well to turboing. id either go tvs or turbo but the tvs costs too much imo for wut it does

 

You DO trap 109 too man...LOL...that is some SERIOUS trap speed for a stock bottom end car that didn't come with a turbo from the factory, and 10psi of boost...
That 50 trim is big in the SRT world too...I've seen it before at the track on a few quick ones....they have a boost friendy compression and a good bottom end in them...one of the things that I remember reading about was that ony the 06 cars had the same rods as the Kappa cars....the 07 and 08 cars are different rod material...those kappa cars had the crap beaten outa them with that 06 style bottom end....do you know of anyone who's got a big turbo'd LE5 car with an aftermarket bottom end in it yet, or is it just the kappa guys for now?

 

50trim SRTs are weaksauce.

 

Beacause you raced jon's shitty running untuned srt and got lucky and beat it don't mean there all weak.

 

hmmmm...... what kind of times have you pulled in your tvs balt?

John's isn't the only 50trim "SRT" that I have raced.

But thanks for making up excuses. Fact is, his ass got waxed. After handicapping myself he made it somewhat of a decent race. 99% of the public will agree that a M62 stock blower cobalt should not beat a 50trim srt (regardless of tune), especially not a LIGHTER SRT powered 50trim mid 90's neon. Power to weight enters the equation along with power.

If his car wasn't in race condition, then he shouldn't have been driving over an hour away to the outskirts of Lincoln, NE to race. And he shouldn't have raced me. My car was overheating and knocking, yet you don't hear me whining about why I lost. Oh yea, I didn't.

 

50 trim is a beginners turbo...

 

Regardless, most 50trim cars shouldn't be losing to M62 cobalts. But I guess my car isn't your average stock blower cobalt.