So my goal before was an N/A build. But once I realized how expensive for so little power it would get I said forget it. Although it still would have been pretty cool. But I've always wanted to S/C my car. But with 113k on the car I wanted to just trade it in...but what I wanna get isnt out yet/may never come out. (SRT-4 Dart) But if I ever went boost I wanted to get to 400whp (100whp per cyl) I see that the TVS gets what? About 300-350ish in our cars? With a built motor (which at my milage, any big boost build id say is needed) with different compression, maybe a ported/polished intake mani, all the usual suporting mods, ported head, cams, (all the good and expensive goodies) is it possible to get a reliable 400whp out of the TVS? Id rather not go turbo if I dont have to. I love the S/C whine over a turbo blow off...epecially with my automatic (ZZP built by the way, so it should be able to take the abuse...unlike my stock one that blew up)

 

idk if you'd get those numbers out of a 2.4 but auto's can handle a tvs if thats what youre asking

 

Mr belvedere &Euthanasia are two guys you really want to talk to, if your gonna get there you will need their expertise or parts to get it done. I think your shooting a little high though with tvs proly gonna need some nitrous to see 400whp

 

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/dyno...2012-a-272372/

2.4L - Anything Goes!!
Forced Induction, Nitrous, MAKE POWER
1. Mobile Chassis Dyno 406whp, 463wtq, Dynojet Dyno ZZPtk/E85/Stock Motor! Graph
2. elecblue06, 324whp, 315wtq Verified Dynojet, 80s/BNR/DP/E/FMIC/tune/E85/14psi Graph
3. glen229, 303whp,321wtq Verified Dynojet (50trim 10psi)TK/60s/T Graph
4. Cherry_GT, 271whp/275wtq Verified TK(s256et 10psi)/DP/E/CD/I/CP/IC/T Graph
5. hhrfreek, 257whp, 233wtq Verified Dyno, I,F,GMH,DP,E,T,60s,3.1,M62,PB,CD,HE,TB,C, Graph Graph
6. elecblue06, 251whp, 208wtq Verified WinDyn H, DP, E, T, PCK, 3.2, 60s, m62 Graph
7. Zdeuce4, 247whp, 267wtq Verified Mustang Dyno (50trim 12psi)TK/E/T/60s Graph

 

Riceburner, I'm trying to see if a built 2.4 motor with different compression/whole top amd bottom end build up with a TVS could make 400whp on either like 93 and meth or e85 or something. I already know my trans will hold up. Stock blew up, so about 10-15k miles ago I went to ZZP and had em build my trans up.

 

LNFTX, thank you for the references man I will have to PM them or link them to this thread or something!

 

this is exactly what im planning

 

By realized NA wasn't cost effective, you really meant to say "after the entire 2.4 section and rest of CSS.net told me after page after page that it was a stupid idea, and after I said the cobalt suck and I'm just going to get a turbo awd dart"

I would think TVS with meth will get you there.
05-07 LE5 are good safely to 300 WHP (inertia dyno) many have had them at 350+ with no issues. It's a guessing game/up to the driver/ abuse past the 350 mark. probably could to 500 for one pull on the dyno :P I personally run at 280ish (inertia dyno) for my daily setup. 80+ WHP is just a tune flash and a boost controller adjust away.

08+ have had failures at 300

I mean you could have peak power of 450+ but if you don't redline it to hell at every red light you'd be fine on stock bottom end.

Depending on your proportions of boost to octane rating. you could go two routes, if you go small pulley and get 11+psi with 93. The cylinder walls/sleeves are your weak point. In which case you need a $2000-$5000 girdled block from
ZZP

If you go meth and lower boost, you just need to buy a junkyard 2.4 for $200 and take ZZP rods $500 and 9:1 $800 to your local machine/rebuild shop.

I am allways bemused how folks on CSS base their builds on peak horsepower goals, which is not the ecotecs strong point by a long shot. Dat sexy flat torque curve is though. Guess they hear 500-600 Honda guys talking and don't realize how shitty it is to drive a car with a high/ narrow power band.

I would recommend getting the super charged stuff on first. You can allways adjust for more power later.

400 WHP is excessive for a FWD road car. that's. I'm not sure what cars you have owned/driven in the past. But 400 WHP is silly for a street car. Even in my low power setup, which inertia dynos between 282-286, I melt my F23's long gears to 200+km (120mph) our cars don't have amazing high speed stability, and not many places have highways/roads to do that on safely.

With the rpm ranges I typically daily drive @, I use between 60-140 WHP / 100-200 ft/lbs, even merging on highways I don't even come close to redlining it

Welcome back after your month of sleuthing

 

With a pre 07 2.4(forged internals); the stock lower end will hold 400ish
I daily this shitbox still and I went 286/274 on a mustang with 3.15" TVS ~14psi
And went 14.09 at 107 with a 2.4 60' on street tires.
With dual pass, flowthru, 7gph 50/50, HE, 3" exh, 3" cai, 60s

I will be going back to dyno soon with the addition of headstuds, P&P head, 80s, full return fuel, dw300, 2.6", and 14gph 50/50.

The 2.4s can hold a lot more power than people realize cause nobody really pushes these.

 

Well I do have the 2006 factory forged motor...but I wouldn't wanna run like 500ish engine HP (to get around 400 to the wheels) on a motor that has 113k on her...I would probably go to FMSR or ZZP and have them rebuild my motor and do as mentioned, the girdled block, new rods...pistons, maybe crank work? Ported heads and cams...the whole 9 yards amd then S/C it haha. Funny part is this will probably take about the same amount of money it would have taken to get me to 200whp N/A lmao!

 

thats about $5k ish +, dont forget to get the quaife LSD/trans mounts/inserts, if you are going drivetrain before power route.

benchmarking the LE5, or any NA ecotec for that matter off horsepower is silly. You could not touch the engine, take off the rev limiter, adn rev it to 9000 to get 200 WHP off a stock engine if you wanted to see a dyno of 200 WHP for an LE5. Ecotec's are not a high horsepower design. GM engineered them that way.

a fully modded NA LE5, might struggle to do 200 WHP, but you would see a very wicked flat torque curve from 2000+ RPM on the dyno.

see norrj's NA graph


cut off @ 6400,

see honda k24 (2.4)

280hp n/a k24 - Honda-Tech

if you compare the sub 5000 RPM range, before the cam phasing

you will see a very comparable torque/HP edging out to the k24 by 10/12

once the cam phasing happens, its a different story.

if you were to extrapolate the graph into the 8k-9k teritory, and ran the math with the horsepower formula, you could definitely expect close to 250 WHP

just eyeballing it, dont take it as gospel / take it with a grain of salt

(160 tq x 8000 ) /5252 = 243 WHP
(160 tq x 9000) / 5252 = 274 WHP

not sure on noorj's build details, but obviously valve springs/retainers, and a ATI ballancer would be needed to cancel out the harmonics of reving to 9000

But to say a LE5 cant get 250 WHP NA, is more of a limitation on ballancing/harmonics, . rather than volumetric efficiency limitation. as with any NA build.

as verbatim has said, no one has really pushed our motors engineering to its limits, so no one knows. No company has spent the time/money/tooling/milling/design to see how far an ecotec can go NA.

no company makes 12:1 pistons for the LE5. No company makes a specific NA grind set of cams to take advantage of our VVT. Once the theoretical volumetric effciency has been reached, its just a matter of revving it to the moon for peak HP

 

Ceeker, I already have the trans. Have for about 15k now. And quaife doesnt make an automatic LSD just for the guys running stick. I did buy a team green insert...but ZZP's trans guy said it did not fit. And built the trans without it...also I have moved on from the N/A build. Im now looking for info on TVS for my car. What I would need to do to get 400whp without having to rev to like 9 or 10k lol 8 I think would be my limit. I just wanna know what is possible being auto, and going TVS on my LE5. The car does have 113k on it...so I need to rebuild the motor before going crazy. And am just curious if there is a better compression I can go with, and whatever else I can do internal wise to get me to or very close to 400whp on this set up. Im not really aure what you mean by benchmarking my car off horsepower. I shouldnt have a goal HP I wanna achieve?

 

To make power you need:
Compression
Airflow(boost, spray)
Timing


When guys put low compression pistons in just so they can turn up the boost, it's counterintuitive...

I would say; run 10.5 pistons, maybe rods, P&P head, 75lb supertechs, plan on replacing valves and guides cause it's a common ecotec problem, 2.5-2.6" TVS, 20gph meth, dual pass, griffen, flow thru opt b, phenolic spacer, ZZP adjustable tensioner, LZM balance shaft delete kit, full timing kit, ZZP cams, Powell mounts, Powell control arm bushings

 

Already have TTR trans mounts, about to get the motor mount, and I have the full ZZP tubular control arms just comes down to motor and boost! :p lol! Also, Verbatim would this setup be ok to daily in good weather? Or is that basically like a track sorta setup? Also is meth injection a better option than just doing e85? Or do e85 and meth on top??

 

meth mix is more combustible than e85. Personally, i think WHP builds goals are silly, but i'm more of a power-band/graph kind of guy when i dyno rather than peak HP. Considering i typically drive below 5252 rpms, i only end up using maybe 160-170 HP lol, regardless of what my motor is acutally capable of doing.

i was mostly tryign to say:
ecotec's aren't engineered for high horsepower
Useable torque>max peak power

If you aren't tracking on a circuit, IE driving @ redline constantly, or going 120mph+ constantly, peak horse power is meaningless for a street car.

from what i have gathered, it sounds like you are trying to do one monstrous build, all at once, and spending hours googling/researching. if you want to do bottom end+tvs its gonna be close to $8k+ once its all said in done. I'd recomend buying the ZZP kit + TVS, putting it all on, and see where your at, if you like it/want more etc. than go from there.

Once you have the parts/foundation in place, its not hard to adjust/tune for more power. My turbo parts are capable of 350WHP/400 crank, but i run, 260-280 WHP ish daily, even that its irrelevant, because i have enough torque from 2500-5252 (200-250 ftlbs) to put me back in the seat.

Don't get too caught up in peak horse power numbers, they really are irrelevant on a street car, especially with the torque of a TVS

Trying to plan out a 10 grand build for 400 WHP in one big go is kind of time waste, your 2 weeks of shipping or so, plus a few days of build time, from a TVS 2.4

Verbatim, gave you a complete build

Bust out the credit card and click 'add to cart" allready

 

Its just that 400whp is a goal of mine. Not 400 at regular driving. But just peak. If they can do 400 peak and really nice pull for DD id be one happy man! And im slowly working on it. LS4 TB, ZZP long rube headers, matching DP, Hahn cat back, ported head, cams, whole motor rebuild, tvs, TTR motor mount, OVERKILL ENGINEERING sway bar end links. I already have the TTR trans mounts, ZZP tubular control arms, Moog sway bar bushings, and ZZP fully built trans. Also have Stance coils on the way. Should be able to handle whatever I throw at her when it comes down to building the motor! And with all the suspension upgrades should pretty much eliminate any wheel hop I might get!

 

Slowly but surely I'll try ans get all this done! Seen some nice deals on here on TVS's!!!

 

nice man, take some pics of the parts you have! i love seeing that ****, reminds me of xmas!

 

I will if I can get good shots of them. I'll try my best...trans looks the same tho! And slowly but surely I'll have pics of the new stuff as I go boost!

 

IDK when your planning on doing this build but I'll have a slightly used set of ZZP long tubes for sale in the following weeks

 

Does it come with the down pipe?