Let us know how it works Kevin. I am having to fight myself from posting my opinion on traction mods other than better tires and springs out of respect for how much bloody car knowledge you have. However it is a fairly impressive and intelligent post. I am kinda proud of it. I deleted it.

You will have some impressive times no matter what I think. Only way to disappoint me is to snap your axle every attempt like a certain someone I went to watch last year

 

speaking from reading of course, much like all the information you post half the time.

pots calling the kettle back dayn.

 

On that note, here is a vid of my first night at SIR, with some surprise *****....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQBKdmMlRZU

 

Nice run, and that was pretty funny suprise *****

 

Normally I would agree with everything you have to say.. but on this topic my opinion differs. Something seriously needs to be done about the Cobalt traction issues, and I personally don't feel that the best option has been found just yet.
Our axles aren't strong enough to support the strain of a hard launch on slicks (from what I've read). This is still an area that needs to be explored... sadly I don't think a proper fix will ever be found, since most of the launch issues were corrected in the 08 Cobalt.

I don't exactly know who your sources are... nor do I like bashing my friends... but seriously, wtf? Speaking from experience? Did you really say that? Just what experience are you talking about Dane?.... *sigh*

/cry
Why does YouTube have to be blocked from work?

 

I think dane was saying that I am speaking from exprience in a sarcastic way because apparently reading up and getting facts on a ainkevy holds zero credibility in danes eyes

 

I don't see how Dane could say that reading up on things has no credibility, concidering that's all he's ever done.

I tend to agree though, reading generally does offer limited information. There are so many people on this forum that have absolutely no idea what the **** they are talking about, that the only real way to get anything is to test it yourself.... *sigh*

 

Here is a good read about slicks vs streets from a reputable source I would say...

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/drivetrain-79/slicks-street-tires-whats-best-driveline-durability-120991/

The short version is that slicks aren't as bad as people believe because they have a lot of flex and actually absorb some of the shock that otherwise would be transferred to either the clutch or axles or transmission etc...

I was originally one of the ones shying away from slicks but the above post made a lot of sense to me and changed my mind a bit.

And of course thats for the track.... I would say if you want to launch at the track, slicks.

If you also want to launch on the street, well then the other mods come into play such as mounts and crap. And all this is my opinion of course, not arguing with anyone

 

Well it makes sense that a smaller rim would launch better look at redlines yes they weigh a little less but because of their 17 rims they stock run quicker then the cobalt

Ryan call me at work

 

What's your work number? I keep forgetting to put it in my phone...

(sound familiar to our talk last night? lol)

 

Launching in reverse has solved all my issues - god HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT!!!









lol?

EDIT: And just have a look at the non-wheel hop in my video. Let me just hop up on this soap box and say I was right, the Gimli track prep sucks. Gimli grip = tires, SIR grip = track+tires.......since I don't have good tires, there is only one place my grip came from....

 

I'm glad you checked the forum again after you called me.. Jerk.

I'm boooooooooooooooooored.

 

i noticed....also noticed that they let you line up in the "grooves"

 

sorry im not allowed to be on my cell or have acsess to a computer at work unless i am in the offices (which i am now, eating arby's curly fries)

 

I know, it's like they get that I paid to race, lol. Also notice the guy putting glue on after every run.

 

So, basically what you're trying to say is they aren't cheap bastards out there?

 

ANYONE on here have a friend or mechanic that can install and flash my stage II for me?? reply, with the price... plz ty

 

Well I did delete it and even checked to see if anyone quoted me before I deleted it. However,

My opinion - Kevin has the knowledge to deal with the limitation of our cars and I am still waiting for him to take me for a spin

Though this kettle can still explain why I would actually go with neither traction bars/mounts or tires first. With tires we have a chance at snapping our axle (I believe it would be a lower chance with our cars not putting out the tq that Kevin and Pablo are) and with traction bars we can bend other mounts. Otherwise I am also going to agree with Ryan for the most part.

As the tires maintain enough friction to pull us forward the car leans back reducing the weight on the tires and the overall friction. As soon as the tires lose friction they slip and the energy that was pulling the car is now gone and it leans forward a bit. As soon as they grab friction again due to the weight transfer the weight transfers again and causes another loss of friction. Once the kinetic energy of swinging back and forth starts it makes it much easier for the system to progress. If you took physics you may remember the sinusoidal kinetic energy graphs, at the peak we have friction and at the nodes we have no friction.

Add traction bars into the system and now the energy is being dissipated slightly due to a stiffer arm. Add engine mounts and now the torque moving the motor back and forth is stiffened lowering the energy being put into the overall system. The engine rocking at the same time the car leans back on top of the slip and grab makes for the hop. Add better tires and you now reduce the sinusoidal equation caused by slip and grab forcing the car to be in a more constant state of acceleration instead of leaning back and forth.

Traction bars work by stiffness but add more force on to the control arms (I think??? maybe a different part I don't know the parts well enough... maybe struts??? lol really i dont know) which were are already under stress. Engine mounts absorb the torque and cause the engine to move less adding more stress to the mounts. Tires will hold ideal friction better putting more stress on the axle.

Each of the above has a negative but doing them all will evenly distribute the excess force onto the entire system. So as far as my opinion, this is where I draw my conclusion from. I would not upgrade any single system. I would do all or nothing. Which I will never be able to afford.

Now from the cobalt SS to the SS/Sc the design is very similar aside from engine. The SS having 180HP roughly and the Sc having 210hp roughly. The Sc has a lot more torque than the SS so if you were to upgrade a single system you may not be over stressing anything. The Sc may not have the same opportunity. Kevin's turbo cobalt will be at an even greater disadvantage as he probably by now has over 300 torque unless it is possible to limit boost in 1st gear.

So again I feel there is no simple solution to the wheel hop. If there was everyone would already have it. Though, I would still look for better tires first because where I need traction is at the top of 2nd gear and I am not worried about breaking anything if my tires didn't slip under full acceleration. As for launching I just give it less throttle and don't hop. If I could give more power with no hop I would obviously be faster but I cannot afford any repairs if I break something racing.

Edit: Poly mounts/bushings (whatever they are) may be the only thing that doesn't have any possible side effects since it is just upgrading a poor design.

 

Dane... long, but informed.

^^^^

 

good post, simple solution to wheel hop is RWD lol

as far as comparing the ss to ss/sc, the reason the ss/sc spins and hops alot more in 1st is due to the fact that the supercharger is creating your power right off the get go, in the new turbo cobalts (atleast from what i have read/seen) the wheel hop has been reduced, now this coould be from the stiffer suspension and what not but who knows...

the reason that ss 2.4s can take ss/sc in first gear is souly because you guys produce to much power from the supercharger, 1st gear for the ss/sc is horrible (and i think everyone can agree) for the 2.4 its much different. right off the get go we are very strong (considering our 60 fts are very close and you guys produce roughly 50 more wtq)

essentialy, the only mod i would do would be ttr tranny mounts and upper engine mounts (those two combined have shown proven resaults) after that i would go all or nothing with a good set of lightweight 17 and a GOOD tire + some traction bars and what not.

 

What did you buy?

 

Yeah, this is from the stiffer suspension. The turbo on the new Balt has more TQ and it comes sooner than the SC, believe it or not.

 

Still takes time to spool over instant power that's good to know Courtney so there is solutions to this issue

 

Yup, I wish you could all run here and see the difference. I have stock everything suspension-wise, including stock tires. No wheel hop here, retarded wheel hop in Gimli.....that sure made me rethink everything. I ran my personal best too. Don't want to start a flame war, but I think this topic is potentially expensive, so it's worth knowing what will work. Traction bars: Wes tried, found they didn't do it. Motor mounts, no experience there I don't think... Tires: same - we all runs stock so far. But, if I can run so much better on a better track, that is ONLY affecting my tire to road grip. That is the source of the wheel hop problem. So, rather than treating all of the symptoms (axles, mounts, bushings, control arms), you know it is really starting to make sense to treat the cause - tires to road.

That is my opinion - hopefully that makes sense, and maybe will save you all some money as you mod for traction. Personally, I plan to avoid the mounts and bushings (unlike how I was convinced before) and just get the best tires I can get (that's another discussion all together lol).

PS: And the "instant power" myth for the SC isn't quite accurate, unfortunately for the SCs. The SC robs power from the engine until a certain point where it's power-adding outweighs it's cost. The turbo robs no power, as the back pressure is so minute in modern small ballbearning turbos (right Kenny?) The TC 'balt makes more power sooner than the SC does. Sad and true. So, all other things being equal, the TC would have a HARDER time launching (as seen in some TC threads where old SC owners are running slower 60s in the TC without launch control). But, with the upgrades and smarter PCM (launch control, etc.) the TC meters the power better.

 

Tires would be first for me. The only downside is more stress on the axle but we don't have to launch at 5k RPM just because the tires are good for it.

Also from what i have read the "launch control" on the turbo balts is providing a worse launch than without.