Calgary - random talk thread
10-16-2012, 10:37 AM
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You need a phenolic spacer. It provides a non heat conducting barrier between the head and the intake manifold.
As far as I know the fan only comes on when the engine is hot. It retards timing when the iat2's get high.
When Steve and I did my dualpass and option be, there were no sensors of any kind in the system. I think it goes of iat2's and may turn the fan on when they get high enough but I doubt that
As far as I know the fan only comes on when the engine is hot. It retards timing when the iat2's get high.
When Steve and I did my dualpass and option be, there were no sensors of any kind in the system. I think it goes of iat2's and may turn the fan on when they get high enough but I doubt that
maybe i am just a lil paraniod about the heat.... this is the problem when none of your gauges are working properly.... also not having a interceptor makes it hard to tell whats going on....
morning you all!!!!
johnathan ask yourself 1 question.... are you willing to take the chance to try to better your future.... or are you feeling comfortable? if your comfortable then prepare for the long haul and dont let the crap in the office stress you out so much....
on a side note i cant wait til next spring coz me and big bird have a date in castrol..... i may loose but i promise you it will be closer then our last race.....
10-16-2012, 05:22 PM
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Got a question for you tech guys. Im looking at some NGK spark plugs for my cobalt, as I am wanting to go two stages colder. The ones I am looking at are NGK LTR7IX-11's. AFter some searching, I found our heat setting was 5, so 7 should do me well for my future plans.
Anyone have any experience or insight on these plugs?
Anyone have any experience or insight on these plugs?
10-16-2012, 05:41 PM
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LSJ Stock: IFR6D10 (Iridium upgrade, I like IR plugs ) Stock Platinum PFR6H10/PFR6T-10G (again almost identical afaik, its jus that one is also an ACDelco plug) Cheapy plugs would be the BKR6E, this should be avaialble everywhere as about 19456million different cars from Audi to Aveo to BMW to VW to Aston Martin use these but they come gapped to .031" which is too small for stock.(though they are conventional plugs so gapping isnt an issue)
LSJ 1 step colder: PFR7H-10(platinum, gapped to stock spec of .040")
BKR7EIX-11 is iridium gapped to .043"
BKR7EIX is iridium gapped to .031"
BKR7E(THE LSJ plug it seems, its just a plain old chapy Vpower gapped to .035" again pretty universal)
LSJ 2 step colder: BKR8EIX (Iridium gapped to .031")
LSJ 1 step colder: PFR7H-10(platinum, gapped to stock spec of .040")
BKR7EIX-11 is iridium gapped to .043"
BKR7EIX is iridium gapped to .031"
BKR7E(THE LSJ plug it seems, its just a plain old chapy Vpower gapped to .035" again pretty universal)
LSJ 2 step colder: BKR8EIX (Iridium gapped to .031")
10-16-2012, 05:54 PM
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Oh sorry I thought he had an LSJ.
How come you're wanting to go two steps colder? One step colder should be fine. What's your future plans?
LNF stock: ILTR5D (same as 2.2/2.4 plug but pregapped at .035" instead of .043")
LNF 1step colder: ILTR6A-8G This is an expensive plug, but its the only acceptable NGK iridium plug that comes gapped in the proper range for the LNF. In a pinch you could use the same ILTR6B11 or LTR6IX-11 as the 2.2/2.4, but just know that youll have to gap them....something not desirable to do on an expensive IR plug
LNF 2 steps colder: LTR7IX-11 The only 2 step colder NGK IR plug, as above youll need to reduce the gap. Unless youre making stupid power though a #6 at .031" will probably be fine anyway
LNF 1step colder: ILTR6A-8G This is an expensive plug, but its the only acceptable NGK iridium plug that comes gapped in the proper range for the LNF. In a pinch you could use the same ILTR6B11 or LTR6IX-11 as the 2.2/2.4, but just know that youll have to gap them....something not desirable to do on an expensive IR plug
LNF 2 steps colder: LTR7IX-11 The only 2 step colder NGK IR plug, as above youll need to reduce the gap. Unless youre making stupid power though a #6 at .031" will probably be fine anyway
Last edited by StruttinSoul; 10-16-2012 at 05:54 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
10-16-2012, 06:07 PM
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Next year will be a bigger turbo upgrade as well as meth/nitrous (havent decided on which yet).
So if Im reading that info right, and yes I do have an LNF, if I go with the 1 step colder ILTR6A's, they are already gapped properly. But if I go with the 2 step colder LTR7IX's, I will have to gap them myself?
Makes sense to me, Ill look into the 1 step colder, see if I can find some stock here in Edmonton.
Besides NGK, are there other brands that make "acceptable" plugs, like Denso or Bosch?
So if Im reading that info right, and yes I do have an LNF, if I go with the 1 step colder ILTR6A's, they are already gapped properly. But if I go with the 2 step colder LTR7IX's, I will have to gap them myself?
Makes sense to me, Ill look into the 1 step colder, see if I can find some stock here in Edmonton.
Besides NGK, are there other brands that make "acceptable" plugs, like Denso or Bosch?
10-16-2012, 08:12 PM
Got a question for you tech guys. Im looking at some NGK spark plugs for my cobalt, as I am wanting to go two stages colder. The ones I am looking at are NGK LTR7IX-11's. AFter some searching, I found our heat setting was 5, so 7 should do me well for my future plans.
Anyone have any experience or insight on these plugs?
Anyone have any experience or insight on these plugs?
I would say that unless you're changing compression - leave your plug heat range where it's at;
the LNF is somewhat unique (at least in my mind as compared to conventional engines) in that that the direct injection also cools the combustion chamber;
If you increase your compression, or go to more boost in the stock turbo without some means of cooling the intake charge or combustion chamber temps, going to a colder plug would be a route to go;
going to a colder plug is beneficial when the combustion chamber is getting hotter than it was designed...
Methanol, or a nitrous wet-shot, should actually help to reduce combustion temps... at least the way I've understood things.
One of the easiest ways of reading combustion chamber temps is to read the exhaust temps.
If you go to a plug that is too cold, you're going to hurt things...
If you go to a larger turbo, what you're essentially doing (assuming you've matched it with other upgrades) is reducing the intake charge temps, and assisting in keeping the combustion chamber temp down;
A larger turbo can make more boost with less effort (at the expense of slower spool, and lag).
I nitrous dry shot would increase temps because it would (assuming you don't adjust the fuel tables) lean out the mixture.
In summary:
By running the wrong plug - you very well could be causing issues; stick to stock until you change things.
But hey, that's just my two cents worth.
10-16-2012, 08:19 PM
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Well, its either I change the plugs and a couple other things, or I change after. And my mindset is, I want to prepare the engine beforehand to handle more power. Did a couple hours of research this afternoon (i know more about plugs than I care to at this point), and the general rule of thumb that most people share is, for every 75-100 extra hp you add to the engine, you go down a step in plugs. So I think I have settled on 1 step down plugs, considering what the heat rating is on the LNF plugs stock. This will ease a couple of issues I have right now, and just give me more leeway later on with some other upgrades.
Meth/Nitrous does cool the combustion chambers, but every little bit helps in keeping with the specifications of such kits. After reading up on AEM and Snow's meth kits, as well as Zex nitrous kits, all recommend at least a one step colder plug to keep the sparks flowing evenly with the added heat at the tip. Dry kits are not meant for forced induction cars, so thats not an option anyways.
Meth/Nitrous does cool the combustion chambers, but every little bit helps in keeping with the specifications of such kits. After reading up on AEM and Snow's meth kits, as well as Zex nitrous kits, all recommend at least a one step colder plug to keep the sparks flowing evenly with the added heat at the tip. Dry kits are not meant for forced induction cars, so thats not an option anyways.
10-16-2012, 09:03 PM
...
Meth/Nitrous does cool the combustion chambers, but every little bit helps in keeping with the specifications of such kits. After reading up on AEM and Snow's meth kits, as well as Zex nitrous kits, all recommend at least a one step colder plug to keep the sparks flowing evenly with the added heat at the tip. Dry kits are not meant for forced induction cars, so thats not an option anyways.
Meth/Nitrous does cool the combustion chambers, but every little bit helps in keeping with the specifications of such kits. After reading up on AEM and Snow's meth kits, as well as Zex nitrous kits, all recommend at least a one step colder plug to keep the sparks flowing evenly with the added heat at the tip. Dry kits are not meant for forced induction cars, so thats not an option anyways.
You would go with a colder plug when your combustion chamber temps go up;
The two are actually vastly different, allow me to try to explain in as simple a means as I can muster:
Gasoline Octane ratings are directly relative to the anti-knock components of the mixture;
100 octane gasoline can safely run an engine with higher compression;
85 octane gasoline cannot run high compression engines ~ the lowering of octane ratings in gas in the early 1970's is directly why the manufacturers lowered engine compression ratios.
Nitrous injection is the most efficient means of adding oxygen to the combustion chamber;
this increases combustion temps, which requires a richer mixture, or higher octane rated gasoline.
Nitrous = requires more, or higher octane rated fuel
Methanol injection (aka: water injection) is an alternate means of adding oxygen to the combustion chamber, which also adds as a byproduct water to the combustion chamber ~ which has a cooling effect.
Methanol = can be used to combat knock attributed to higher compression or higher combustion chamber temps.
.............................
A change of one heat range in spark plugs, especially when making more power, is generally accepted as a safe move.
A change of two heat ranges is generally not a safe move.
10-16-2012, 09:10 PM
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Jonathan beat me to it but you typically will want to go one heat range lower with a modded LNF but two is just unnecessary and may even cause you issues.
10-16-2012, 09:35 PM
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Methanol injection (aka: water injection) is an alternate means of adding oxygen to the combustion chamber, which also adds as a byproduct water to the combustion chamber ~ which has a cooling effect.
Water injection (engines) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Or so I've read. heh. I really want to set it up on my car. It seems like you can't really go wrong with it.
10-16-2012, 10:50 PM
I don't think Water/Meth Injection adds Oxygen, it's just a way of cooling down the combustion chamber so you can add more timing and get more power. The misted water cools (and as a side effect cleans) and the Methanol acts as an antifreeze and has the nice little side effect of being more combustible.
Or so I've read. heh. I really want to set it up on my car. It seems like you can't really go wrong with it.
Or so I've read. heh. I really want to set it up on my car. It seems like you can't really go wrong with it.
1) when heated what happens to water?
2) what is the composition of water?
Effects
In a piston engine, the initial injection of water cools the fuel-air mixture significantly, which increases its density and hence the amount of mixture that enters the cylinder. The water (if in small liquid droplets) may absorb heat (and lower the pressure) as the charge is compressed, thus reducing compression work.[1] An additional effect comes later during combustion when the water absorbs large amounts of heat as it vaporizes, reducing peak temperature and resultant NOx formation, and reducing the amount of heat energy absorbed into the cylinder walls. This also converts part of combustion energy from the form of heat to the form of pressure. As the water droplets vaporize by absorbing heat, it turns to high pressure steam (water vapor or steam mainly resulted from combustion chemical reaction). The alcohol in the mixture burns, but is also much more resistant to detonation than gasoline. The net result is a higher octane charge that will support very high compression ratios or significant forced induction pressures before onset of detonation.
In a piston engine, the initial injection of water cools the fuel-air mixture significantly, which increases its density and hence the amount of mixture that enters the cylinder. The water (if in small liquid droplets) may absorb heat (and lower the pressure) as the charge is compressed, thus reducing compression work.[1] An additional effect comes later during combustion when the water absorbs large amounts of heat as it vaporizes, reducing peak temperature and resultant NOx formation, and reducing the amount of heat energy absorbed into the cylinder walls. This also converts part of combustion energy from the form of heat to the form of pressure. As the water droplets vaporize by absorbing heat, it turns to high pressure steam (water vapor or steam mainly resulted from combustion chemical reaction). The alcohol in the mixture burns, but is also much more resistant to detonation than gasoline. The net result is a higher octane charge that will support very high compression ratios or significant forced induction pressures before onset of detonation.
my thoughts exactly.
Last edited by soundjunky; 10-16-2012 at 10:50 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
10-17-2012, 01:30 AM
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The reason I think the kits suggest going with a step colder plugs, even though the nitrous/meth will cool the temp as well... is that the cooling effect is negated by the extra power made (or so im reading on the zex customer forums).
As well, reason I want to do the plugs now, before I do a bigger power upgrade, is I already have a bit of knock as seen on every single one of my data logs. I have spent the last two months trying to eliminate it from the logs, but it just keep showing up. So im running out of things to change/upgrade.
And just for reference, although Ill take it with a grain of salt:
Q: Do I have to change my spark plugs after installing the nitrous system?
A: YES, Due to the increase in horsepower the nitrous system creates, the quantity of heat generated in the combustion chamber goes up. It is required that you install spark plugs that have at least two steps colder heat range. This helps to ensure detonation free performance when using the nitrous system. ZEX™ has nitrous specific spark plugs available for many makes and models of vehicles.
A: YES, Due to the increase in horsepower the nitrous system creates, the quantity of heat generated in the combustion chamber goes up. It is required that you install spark plugs that have at least two steps colder heat range. This helps to ensure detonation free performance when using the nitrous system. ZEX™ has nitrous specific spark plugs available for many makes and models of vehicles.
10-17-2012, 01:35 AM
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will you need a phenolic spacer..... its worth every penny.....
maybe i am just a lil paraniod about the heat.... this is the problem when none of your gauges are working properly.... also not having a interceptor makes it hard to tell whats going on....
morning you all!!!!
johnathan ask yourself 1 question.... are you willing to take the chance to try to better your future.... or are you feeling comfortable? if your comfortable then prepare for the long haul and dont let the crap in the office stress you out so much....
on a side note i cant wait til next spring coz me and big bird have a date in castrol..... i may loose but i promise you it will be closer then our last race.....
maybe i am just a lil paraniod about the heat.... this is the problem when none of your gauges are working properly.... also not having a interceptor makes it hard to tell whats going on....
morning you all!!!!
johnathan ask yourself 1 question.... are you willing to take the chance to try to better your future.... or are you feeling comfortable? if your comfortable then prepare for the long haul and dont let the crap in the office stress you out so much....
on a side note i cant wait til next spring coz me and big bird have a date in castrol..... i may loose but i promise you it will be closer then our last race.....
10-17-2012, 01:38 AM
nitrous = heat
and a blanket statement about plug changes without even deciding the shot size, or if it's a wet/dry shot is fairly pointless in my books
but as long as you're doing your diligence by researching it, you should be good...
(and trifecta has lifetime support!)
and a blanket statement about plug changes without even deciding the shot size, or if it's a wet/dry shot is fairly pointless in my books
but as long as you're doing your diligence by researching it, you should be good...
(and trifecta has lifetime support!)
10-17-2012, 10:28 AM
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man between you and jon, i am gonna have problems keeping up..... i think i might need a bottle......
sorry jonathan i had to break up the lnf convention lol..... and yes spring wont come soon enough
10-17-2012, 12:48 PM
I got a solution for will.
Remove post blower spacer, Tap intake for meth or use throttle body spacer, install phenolic spacer!
problem solved
Remove post blower spacer, Tap intake for meth or use throttle body spacer, install phenolic spacer!
problem solved
10-17-2012, 02:45 PM
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I have a throttle body spacer already. Just the TVS I have is already missing quite a bit of coating from meth in the past. I'm going to test out the griffin heat exchanger first and if I don't see good iat2s with that maybe ill switch the meth spray spot