Calgary - random talk thread
02-01-2011, 03:22 PM
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02-01-2011, 03:58 PM
iirc using lightweight flywheel ect will allow the engine to spin up faster, and then for some stupid reason the ECM thinks something is wrong (because it revs "too fast", and causes knock errors, and the engine apparently can go into limp mode... lame-sauce.
something with the lnf is different, it wont bolt up the to lsj, i was going to by a spec that someone had for sale for the lnf but it wouldnt work with the research i did, can look into it more but the clutch and fly wheel are different i believe, the slave though is compatible and is an upgrade
Last edited by soundjunky; 02-01-2011 at 04:09 PM.
02-01-2011, 08:07 PM
Good call.
iirc using lightweight flywheel ect will allow the engine to spin up faster, and then for some stupid reason the ECM thinks something is wrong (because it revs "too fast", and causes knock errors, and the engine apparently can go into limp mode... lame-sauce.
I have never read what the difference was, and even on CED's site, they bot seem to use the same picture... so I dunno, but I am in no way arguing ~ which is why I asked if anyone knew the difference.
iirc using lightweight flywheel ect will allow the engine to spin up faster, and then for some stupid reason the ECM thinks something is wrong (because it revs "too fast", and causes knock errors, and the engine apparently can go into limp mode... lame-sauce.
I have never read what the difference was, and even on CED's site, they bot seem to use the same picture... so I dunno, but I am in no way arguing ~ which is why I asked if anyone knew the difference.
02-01-2011, 09:44 PM
I agree 110%.
It defies conventional logic.
Essentially the LNF short block is an updated LSJ shortblock ~ and the only thing that would make one flywheel not work with the other is if the bolt pattern on the crank end changed...
If the flywheels will physically bolt up to either the LSJ or LNF crank, then the pressure plate becomes to variable;
If the pressure plate is the variable then the bolt spacing/number changed between the two - which would probably indicate the friction area changed...
If I've understood correctly clutches, in fact do interchange between LSJ & LNF...
I just don't see it.
02-01-2011, 11:13 PM
yah im just not sure, i hope i never have to replace mine again haha. On a brighter note i have my head about 75% complete for porting, mygoal is to have it finished by sunday, then next week send it in to get decked, and hot tanked, then i can re assemble. I have the hone ordered so when that gets here next week i can re assemble the bottom end. If any one ever needs some engine building tools i bought a ton for this project so i can lend them out after im complete
02-02-2011, 12:17 AM
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Frankly, how lofty are your plans for the car?
I'd check to see if the readily available clutch kits are the same, or different part numbers for 2005-2007 SS/SC cars than the 2009-2010 SS/TC cars;
If they're the same, I'd skip if you have plans for building the car at all..
If they're different, I'd go for the LNF clutch, as I've heard it has a higher holding capacity.
Joel
02-02-2011, 12:28 AM
well then, bluecobalt99 is probably the guy you would be best suited to talking to.
02-02-2011, 12:29 AM
02-02-2011, 12:30 AM
jon if u want those parts im home this weekend
this is my last year of modding it. Going to finish it in about a month, race it this year, then move onto another project
this is my last year of modding it. Going to finish it in about a month, race it this year, then move onto another project
Last edited by cli3e0339384398jk; 02-02-2011 at 12:30 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
02-02-2011, 12:32 AM
ha-ha!!
This has gone on so long that I had forgot again!!
I'm game ~ I normally head south of town for the mid-late afternoon to visit with my great-uncle;
I'm busy sunday morning...
is saturday or sunday a better day?
This has gone on so long that I had forgot again!!
I'm game ~ I normally head south of town for the mid-late afternoon to visit with my great-uncle;
I'm busy sunday morning...
is saturday or sunday a better day?
02-02-2011, 12:50 AM
cool ~ I'm pretty sure I have your number upstairs... I'll send you a PM friday.
I'd love to check out your work on the Cobalt while there if I could too ~ Although I was never able to watch you run @ RC, Mark tells me that your car ran great, and that you pulled an impressive number on the dyno last year.
I'd love to check out your work on the Cobalt while there if I could too ~ Although I was never able to watch you run @ RC, Mark tells me that your car ran great, and that you pulled an impressive number on the dyno last year.
02-02-2011, 08:27 AM
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Aight, I have another car I can use for a bit so I'm going to think about doing it myself, I always have the help of people on the forums at least. My parents will let me use there garage (heated). Is there any other clutches you reccomend besides GMPP. If it's going to sit for a bit anyways, and I'm digging this far into it I might just put in a clutch I can absolutely forget about. I was thinking maybe an Exedy Hyperclutch.
Opinions?
Joel
Opinions?
Joel
02-02-2011, 10:18 AM
that's probably the cheapest option yet!
if you want to go that route, and can figure out payment with Spaz, I'd be willing to pick it up for you, and deliver it in person on the 12th when I'm down there...
(I posted about this in the Lethbridge thread.)
02-02-2011, 02:31 PM
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Soundjunky your too awesome of a guy haha. I really appreciate it. I'm thinking of avoiding putting the the OEM one though, I'm also not sure what to think about a used clutch (No offense meant to you Spaz, I've never had to replace a clutch before so not sure what to stay away from). I noticed there is a guy selling a Exedy Hyper Single that says it has 5000k on it but I'm thinking I'd prefer to get new.
I'm over the price point I guess, was just a little panicked when I originally posted as my car just gave up on me and want to put in something stronger that will hold what I have now and what I'll be getting in the future. So all the parts for replacement would be the clutch/flywheel/TOB (I've heard there is a better LSJ one?)/Slave. This the correct list?
I've just been researching some clutches the last few days. So far the Exedy one has stuck out the most. Are the Stage 2+ 3+ etc a better option? I'm not sure how overkill this one would be. I've also been looking at that ACT one that thedude suggested.
So anyways, long story short I have another car to drive in the meantime. It's broke now, I might as well upgrade
.
Joel
I'm over the price point I guess, was just a little panicked when I originally posted as my car just gave up on me and want to put in something stronger that will hold what I have now and what I'll be getting in the future. So all the parts for replacement would be the clutch/flywheel/TOB (I've heard there is a better LSJ one?)/Slave. This the correct list?
I've just been researching some clutches the last few days. So far the Exedy one has stuck out the most. Are the Stage 2+ 3+ etc a better option? I'm not sure how overkill this one would be. I've also been looking at that ACT one that thedude suggested.
So anyways, long story short I have another car to drive in the meantime. It's broke now, I might as well upgrade
.Joel
02-02-2011, 02:37 PM
i run a spec 3+ it nice, nice engagment, holds like a mother fer, The upgraded TOB for the LSJ is the one for the TC, make sure you install it, not the old LSJ one. Some people complain about chatter on the spec 3+ but i dont get any unless u attempt to ride the clutch, it doesnt like that. You could launch at higher rpm with it thats for sure, i just cant because i have traction issues, at the track when i went with new clutch i was spinning all the way till half way in 3rd gear....thats why slicks will be ordered soon.
I would offer you a ride in my car but i cant as its ripped apart.
I would offer you a ride in my car but i cant as its ripped apart.
02-02-2011, 03:10 PM
FYI:
A used clutch can work just fine ~ it all depends on if it's glazed over, or damaged in any way.
Also I have understood that some people think that an aftermarket clutch will last longer than an OE clutch - typically this is wrong;
typically the difference is in the composition of the clutch disc's material.
Think of it this way;
you can install better brake pads, but they still last about the same period of time - but they hold better.
This is essentially the same for a clutch.
Generally:
1) A 'stage 1' type clutch will have better friction material on the clutch disc, and use an OE pressure plate.
2) A 'stage 2' type clutch will use the stage1 clutch disc with an upgraded pressure plate (higher spring rate ect)
3) typically a stage2 or higher, will have a different pedal feel ~ and the more aggressive the clutch the more "on & off" it will become (which takes away from streetablility.
Typically an OE clutch will hold alot more than people give it credit for ~ but when power levels pass a point the friction material will simply not be able to hold, and wear off very quickly...
If you're going to do this yourself, and don't (realistically) have plans to go TVS in the next eighteen months, you could just buy Spaz's clutch, a new LNF throwout bearing, and call it done with minimal investment.
not that I really needed it, but I have a Centerforce 'Dual Friction' (think of it as their version of a stage3) in my Grand Am (they only offer a stage1 or stage3 for my GA) - I got it for a great price off of eBay...
A used clutch can work just fine ~ it all depends on if it's glazed over, or damaged in any way.
Also I have understood that some people think that an aftermarket clutch will last longer than an OE clutch - typically this is wrong;
typically the difference is in the composition of the clutch disc's material.
Think of it this way;
you can install better brake pads, but they still last about the same period of time - but they hold better.
This is essentially the same for a clutch.
Generally:
1) A 'stage 1' type clutch will have better friction material on the clutch disc, and use an OE pressure plate.
2) A 'stage 2' type clutch will use the stage1 clutch disc with an upgraded pressure plate (higher spring rate ect)
3) typically a stage2 or higher, will have a different pedal feel ~ and the more aggressive the clutch the more "on & off" it will become (which takes away from streetablility.
Typically an OE clutch will hold alot more than people give it credit for ~ but when power levels pass a point the friction material will simply not be able to hold, and wear off very quickly...
If you're going to do this yourself, and don't (realistically) have plans to go TVS in the next eighteen months, you could just buy Spaz's clutch, a new LNF throwout bearing, and call it done with minimal investment.
not that I really needed it, but I have a Centerforce 'Dual Friction' (think of it as their version of a stage3) in my Grand Am (they only offer a stage1 or stage3 for my GA) - I got it for a great price off of eBay...
Last edited by soundjunky; 02-02-2011 at 03:15 PM.
02-02-2011, 06:59 PM
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Soundjunky your too awesome of a guy haha. I really appreciate it. I'm thinking of avoiding putting the the OEM one though, I'm also not sure what to think about a used clutch (No offense meant to you Spaz, I've never had to replace a clutch before so not sure what to stay away from). I noticed there is a guy selling a Exedy Hyper Single that says it has 5000k on it but I'm thinking I'd prefer to get new.
I'm over the price point I guess, was just a little panicked when I originally posted as my car just gave up on me and want to put in something stronger that will hold what I have now and what I'll be getting in the future. So all the parts for replacement would be the clutch/flywheel/TOB (I've heard there is a better LSJ one?)/Slave. This the correct list?
I've just been researching some clutches the last few days. So far the Exedy one has stuck out the most. Are the Stage 2+ 3+ etc a better option? I'm not sure how overkill this one would be. I've also been looking at that ACT one that thedude suggested.
So anyways, long story short I have another car to drive in the meantime. It's broke now, I might as well upgrade.
Joel
I'm over the price point I guess, was just a little panicked when I originally posted as my car just gave up on me and want to put in something stronger that will hold what I have now and what I'll be getting in the future. So all the parts for replacement would be the clutch/flywheel/TOB (I've heard there is a better LSJ one?)/Slave. This the correct list?
I've just been researching some clutches the last few days. So far the Exedy one has stuck out the most. Are the Stage 2+ 3+ etc a better option? I'm not sure how overkill this one would be. I've also been looking at that ACT one that thedude suggested.
So anyways, long story short I have another car to drive in the meantime. It's broke now, I might as well upgrade
.Joel
As for aftermaket clutches , Larry had a spec 2+ iirc and the pedal effort was quite a bit more than stock and he had engaugement issues. The hard pedal effort eventually pushed the clutch master cylinder off the firewall and the the whole dash had to be pulled out of the car so the plate could be replaced. I ran a 13.6 with my car with the stock clutch...
let me know if you are interested.
Ciao,C
02-02-2011, 07:49 PM
There is nothing wrong with the clutch, I pulled it off a stock engine with 5000kms on it. I put a new engine in the car after the lube tech left the oil fitler loose and the customer took the car and blew the engine.
As for aftermaket clutches , Larry had a spec 2+ iirc and the pedal effort was quite a bit more than stock and he had engaugement issues. The hard pedal effort eventually pushed the clutch master cylinder off the firewall and the the whole dash had to be pulled out of the car so the plate could be replaced. I ran a 13.6 with my car with the stock clutch...
let me know if you are interested.
Ciao,C
As for aftermaket clutches , Larry had a spec 2+ iirc and the pedal effort was quite a bit more than stock and he had engaugement issues. The hard pedal effort eventually pushed the clutch master cylinder off the firewall and the the whole dash had to be pulled out of the car so the plate could be replaced. I ran a 13.6 with my car with the stock clutch...
let me know if you are interested.
Ciao,C
02-02-2011, 08:09 PM
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Aight, I'm really appreciating the advice. Is there anything that would have contributed to my clutch going? It's got 56,000km on it, was doing great up until about 2 weeks ago where I noticed it slip a little then it just completely died all in one shot the other day. It was about 5000k after I put my mods on (2.8, 60's, HE). I'm not a bad driver, never ride the clutch or anything.
Joel
Joel