View Poll Results: Downshift or neutral
Downshift
284
52.50%
neutral
257
47.50%
Voters: 541. You may not vote on this poll
Downshift or neutral??
05-15-2007, 07:00 PM
#76
Senior Member
THE manual CLEARLY states if you have a Manual Transmission that you should always leave it in the gear you were in when coming to a stop and then pull it out just before coming to a complete stop (around 1200rpm)
Thats not neutral costing. but what you quoted DOES prove my point for me. thanks.
And I don't know about you, but If I get rear ended I am ON the BRAKES!!! I had a manual transmission 2004 Pontiac Sunfire with the same drive train combo as this G5 has...Got rear ended while I was coasting to a stop (coasting doesn't mean I'm off to F'in Brake!!! means it is in the gear I started to brake at while my foot is on the brake) The guy was doing 55, I was doing 20 and slowing (foot on brake!) I get hit, and hit the brakes harder, I didn't move any more than if I was in an Auto!
once again you said you were IN GEAR....why are you flipping out at me, your proving my point AGAIN.
Its called Use your F'in head folks, not be some douche saying 'YOU MUST DRIVE LIKE ME CAUSE I AM BOSS AND I KNOW WHAT THE HELL I'M TALKING ABOUT, AND I WORK FOR A COMPANY THAT WILL FIRE MY ASS IF I'M CAUGHT COASTING!!!'
That was merely an example...youll find most GOVERNMENTS have LAWS that state the same thing.
I in my life have never heard of such a thing, and I have neighbors who have been trucking for 20+ years. They down shift only when they need to, they never use the clutch except for first, and when coming to a stop, them rigs have some really good breaks... And also out on the road, I never hear a truck down shift unless it is to slow down really fast and he switches on the jake brake, even though it is highly illegal to do so in town around here.
I think you are very mistaken. trucks that dont downshift. oh thats funny.I think you should really have a talk to those truckers about downshifting and saving brake wear.
I think youll find that truckers use engine braking more than any vehicle on the road
message to the disgruntled know it all! Get a life, if someone drives differently, it doesn't mean they are driving wrong, it just means you are pissed off at someone, and have to take your anger out on folks who don't do what you do!!!
This isnt driving differently my friend. this is driving UNSAFE. which affects OTHER people on the road....which includes me. and you really should try forming an argument without resorting to personal insults to try and strengthen your argument.
PS: Automatics drop to N when you are coming to a stop, and the Torque Converter unlocks...They go back in gear when the tiniest bit of gas is applied! So, N stopping against the law??? Must need to pull over anyone driving an Auto now too, eh?
Once again your trying to spin the argument. NO ONE said neutral STOPPING is against the law. but COASTING to a stop above 5mph is what were discussing here.
and its STILL unsafe and its STILL illegal. no matter how much you flap your arms and call me names.
Thats not neutral costing. but what you quoted DOES prove my point for me. thanks.
And I don't know about you, but If I get rear ended I am ON the BRAKES!!! I had a manual transmission 2004 Pontiac Sunfire with the same drive train combo as this G5 has...Got rear ended while I was coasting to a stop (coasting doesn't mean I'm off to F'in Brake!!! means it is in the gear I started to brake at while my foot is on the brake) The guy was doing 55, I was doing 20 and slowing (foot on brake!) I get hit, and hit the brakes harder, I didn't move any more than if I was in an Auto!
once again you said you were IN GEAR....why are you flipping out at me, your proving my point AGAIN.
Its called Use your F'in head folks, not be some douche saying 'YOU MUST DRIVE LIKE ME CAUSE I AM BOSS AND I KNOW WHAT THE HELL I'M TALKING ABOUT, AND I WORK FOR A COMPANY THAT WILL FIRE MY ASS IF I'M CAUGHT COASTING!!!'
That was merely an example...youll find most GOVERNMENTS have LAWS that state the same thing.
I in my life have never heard of such a thing, and I have neighbors who have been trucking for 20+ years. They down shift only when they need to, they never use the clutch except for first, and when coming to a stop, them rigs have some really good breaks... And also out on the road, I never hear a truck down shift unless it is to slow down really fast and he switches on the jake brake, even though it is highly illegal to do so in town around here.
I think you are very mistaken. trucks that dont downshift. oh thats funny.I think you should really have a talk to those truckers about downshifting and saving brake wear.
I think youll find that truckers use engine braking more than any vehicle on the road
message to the disgruntled know it all! Get a life, if someone drives differently, it doesn't mean they are driving wrong, it just means you are pissed off at someone, and have to take your anger out on folks who don't do what you do!!!
This isnt driving differently my friend. this is driving UNSAFE. which affects OTHER people on the road....which includes me. and you really should try forming an argument without resorting to personal insults to try and strengthen your argument.
PS: Automatics drop to N when you are coming to a stop, and the Torque Converter unlocks...They go back in gear when the tiniest bit of gas is applied! So, N stopping against the law??? Must need to pull over anyone driving an Auto now too, eh?
Once again your trying to spin the argument. NO ONE said neutral STOPPING is against the law. but COASTING to a stop above 5mph is what were discussing here.
and its STILL unsafe and its STILL illegal. no matter how much you flap your arms and call me names.
05-15-2007, 07:06 PM
#77
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-19-05
Location: Horseheads, NY
Posts: 3,018
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, you are the random person being quoted.
And chipsgt, best post of the thread. I still feel funny about this whole thread, because I am not a "coaster" Although I do it sometimes, generally I am downshifting, but spend a little longer in neutral than just going straight to the next lowest gear. Basically a slow downshift. Whatever, I just like debating I guess.
As for the laws posted about it being illegal, I noticed that all specifically note that it is illegal ONLY WHEN GOING DOWN HILLS, nothing about regular flat roads. No **** it's dangerous to coast down a hill. Jesus. No one's arguing that. It can't be that horribly dangerous if it's not enforced either. Has anyone ever heard of someone getting a ticket for coasting?
Really?!? You trust an aftermarket gauge that works for any car over the COMPUTER THAT CONTROLS YOUR OWN VEHICLE? Not saying the widebands are inaccurate, but all you people think the technology in the DIC is a joke, and it's so inaccurate. Yeah, GM's engineers probably don't know what they're doing and have access to less advanced technology than the people who make wideband gauges. Good call.
The 99.99 MPG is an instantaneous readout, it's saying that is what mileage you are getting at that moment. Obviously it cannot sustain that, because of gravity, wind resistance, etc. If you think the DIC is inaccurate, then you should think anything that connects to your car is inaccurate, because they are both connected to the ECU. Haven't you seen those guys that can sqeeze like 100 MPG out of a typically 30 MPG car. Someone posted it on here a while back, but I couldn't find them. I can guarantee you they are doing more coasting than downshifting.
No one has yet to provide a response to the post about the directions in the owner's manual. Why would GM say that is the preferred method?
And chipsgt, best post of the thread. I still feel funny about this whole thread, because I am not a "coaster" Although I do it sometimes, generally I am downshifting, but spend a little longer in neutral than just going straight to the next lowest gear. Basically a slow downshift. Whatever, I just like debating I guess.
As for the laws posted about it being illegal, I noticed that all specifically note that it is illegal ONLY WHEN GOING DOWN HILLS, nothing about regular flat roads. No **** it's dangerous to coast down a hill. Jesus. No one's arguing that. It can't be that horribly dangerous if it's not enforced either. Has anyone ever heard of someone getting a ticket for coasting?
Really?!? You trust an aftermarket gauge that works for any car over the COMPUTER THAT CONTROLS YOUR OWN VEHICLE? Not saying the widebands are inaccurate, but all you people think the technology in the DIC is a joke, and it's so inaccurate. Yeah, GM's engineers probably don't know what they're doing and have access to less advanced technology than the people who make wideband gauges. Good call.
The 99.99 MPG is an instantaneous readout, it's saying that is what mileage you are getting at that moment. Obviously it cannot sustain that, because of gravity, wind resistance, etc. If you think the DIC is inaccurate, then you should think anything that connects to your car is inaccurate, because they are both connected to the ECU. Haven't you seen those guys that can sqeeze like 100 MPG out of a typically 30 MPG car. Someone posted it on here a while back, but I couldn't find them. I can guarantee you they are doing more coasting than downshifting.
No one has yet to provide a response to the post about the directions in the owner's manual. Why would GM say that is the preferred method?
05-15-2007, 07:20 PM
#79
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-19-06
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 981
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For future reference djt81185, just saying something isn't exactly proving it. You can't really PROVE anything over the internet. What did you prove me wrong about anyway?
You were arguing in-gear coasting vs. neutral coasting. I don't disagree with you. I thought the argument was about downshifting vs. coasting?
Because going down a hill, gravity is working against you. When you're on a flat surface, it is not. You cannot argue that it is much easier to lose control on a hill than a flat surface?
You were arguing in-gear coasting vs. neutral coasting. I don't disagree with you. I thought the argument was about downshifting vs. coasting?
Because going down a hill, gravity is working against you. When you're on a flat surface, it is not. You cannot argue that it is much easier to lose control on a hill than a flat surface?
Last edited by N8s07SS; 05-15-2007 at 07:20 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
05-15-2007, 07:35 PM
#80
Senior Member
Join Date: 10-15-04
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 701
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not opinionated one way or another on this topic. I know what works for me, and I have never been at fault in an accident.
I have also in 3 manuals never had to replace a clutch nor have I had slippage issues.
So I am going to stick with what I have been doing.
I have this question though, and I am not being an ass about it, so please dont take this the wrong way all of you pro-downshifters.
But, for those using the gas saving argument, but are mimicing the actions of an automatic drive train, how would that save you gas?
I was under the impression that manuals got better gas mileage because of the fact that you can coast in neutral.
Those that said the engine uses no gas when you down shift, are just wrong.
If you are going 50 mph, and down shift, but are completely out of gas, your engine isnt going to run on magic. If your RPM's are above anything but 0, you are using gas.
Also, I dont know about other states, but I know when I lived in New Mexico that there were signs on the highway prohibiting trucks from using the engine to slow down.
Just a thought.
I dont advocate coasting in neutral, because most accident situations (in my experiance) can be avoided by being on the gas, but I also dont subscribe to down shifting being better than braking. I say a good mix of the two and smart driving are the keys to success here.
I have also in 3 manuals never had to replace a clutch nor have I had slippage issues.
So I am going to stick with what I have been doing.
I have this question though, and I am not being an ass about it, so please dont take this the wrong way all of you pro-downshifters.
But, for those using the gas saving argument, but are mimicing the actions of an automatic drive train, how would that save you gas?
I was under the impression that manuals got better gas mileage because of the fact that you can coast in neutral.
Those that said the engine uses no gas when you down shift, are just wrong.
If you are going 50 mph, and down shift, but are completely out of gas, your engine isnt going to run on magic. If your RPM's are above anything but 0, you are using gas.
Also, I dont know about other states, but I know when I lived in New Mexico that there were signs on the highway prohibiting trucks from using the engine to slow down.
Just a thought.
I dont advocate coasting in neutral, because most accident situations (in my experiance) can be avoided by being on the gas, but I also dont subscribe to down shifting being better than braking. I say a good mix of the two and smart driving are the keys to success here.
Also, ratios are better on a manual. 5 speeds vs 4, so you can keep your car in its efficiency range more.
05-15-2007, 07:39 PM
#81
i see this thread went to hell but ill post what i do. I always use neatural when comming from a off ramp. Usually i try to be in 5th as much as possible with gas prices these days but i rarly downshift. I suck at it #1 and 2 its easier for me to shift into neatural and then shift into the gear needed for the speed i need to go.
05-15-2007, 07:43 PM
#82
Senior Member
Join Date: 05-17-06
Location: Ft. Eustis, VA
Posts: 7,283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you keep the RPM down you will NOT screw up anything. Been doing this for 5 years, and will keep on doing it.
I do not even like going in N, because its just a pain to put back in gear if traffic speeds up. Since I have a exhaust I like the soft deep tone of down shifting.
05-15-2007, 08:00 PM
#83
Senior Member
Join Date: 12-12-04
Location: Pittsburgh,PA:Columbiana,OH
Posts: 1,720
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That would be in reference to using a jake break because of noise.
05-15-2007, 10:37 PM
#84
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-19-06
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 981
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the results of the poll speak for themselves. It doesn't really matter what you do, there aren't 70 something Cobalt drivers getting in accidents because they coast, and there aren't 70 something drivers who get shitty mileage from downshifting. Just do what you feel comfortable with, in the end, it doesn't really make that much difference. No hard feelings to anyone I disagreed with.
05-15-2007, 11:06 PM
#85
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: 02-20-07
Location: Tyler,Texas
Posts: 11,676
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wow one person seperating the vote I made the closest poll ever 
now its even
now its even
Last edited by CobaltVenomSS; 05-15-2007 at 11:06 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
05-16-2007, 07:17 AM
#86
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-02-05
Location: The East Coast
Posts: 2,899
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Our cars use internal combustion engines.
The engine works by a small explosion pushing a piston.
A fuel of some sort has to be used to make the explosion.
You see where I am going with this?
When you downshift and lay off the gas, the engine is still running, meaning the pistons are still being pushed, meaning the car is still using fuel.
If there were a technology that could keep an engine running without using fuel, it would revolutionize the industry.
05-16-2007, 09:32 AM
#89
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-03-06
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 4,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Okay.... I dont like to point out obvious things, but no one corrected this so I am going to.
Our cars use internal combustion engines.
The engine works by a small explosion pushing a piston.
A fuel of some sort has to be used to make the explosion.
You see where I am going with this?
When you downshift and lay off the gas, the engine is still running, meaning the pistons are still being pushed, meaning the car is still using fuel.
If there were a technology that could keep an engine running without using fuel, it would revolutionize the industry.
Our cars use internal combustion engines.
The engine works by a small explosion pushing a piston.
A fuel of some sort has to be used to make the explosion.
You see where I am going with this?
When you downshift and lay off the gas, the engine is still running, meaning the pistons are still being pushed, meaning the car is still using fuel.
If there were a technology that could keep an engine running without using fuel, it would revolutionize the industry.
HPTuners owner explaining DFCO. Post 10 and 12. Some engines completely cut fuel on decel and some pulse 0.5 ms or less.
Last edited by Witt; 05-16-2007 at 09:53 AM.
05-16-2007, 10:05 AM
#90
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-19-05
Location: Horseheads, NY
Posts: 3,018
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Okay.... I dont like to point out obvious things, but no one corrected this so I am going to.
Our cars use internal combustion engines.
The engine works by a small explosion pushing a piston.
A fuel of some sort has to be used to make the explosion.
You see where I am going with this?
When you downshift and lay off the gas, the engine is still running, meaning the pistons are still being pushed, meaning the car is still using fuel.
If there were a technology that could keep an engine running without using fuel, it would revolutionize the industry.
Our cars use internal combustion engines.
The engine works by a small explosion pushing a piston.
A fuel of some sort has to be used to make the explosion.
You see where I am going with this?
When you downshift and lay off the gas, the engine is still running, meaning the pistons are still being pushed, meaning the car is still using fuel.
If there were a technology that could keep an engine running without using fuel, it would revolutionize the industry.
Ur wheels are connected to ur engine via a trans and axles and a clutch. If u shut the motor off ur interia keeps the drivetrain going
Trust me it happens. GO for a ride in a modified car with an exhaust. Down shift and let it coast down a hill in about 2 seconds ull hear a change in teh exhaust...that is the dfco working...Or do u want me to show u hpt charts showing dfco coming on and off
Dan
05-16-2007, 11:13 AM
#91
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-02-05
Location: The East Coast
Posts: 2,899
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Okay.... Maybe you better post up what you are talking about. I read the posts.... but it still sounds like you are saying that an engine can and will run without fuel.
My point is that regardless of how little fuel it might be using, it is still using it.
If fuel is not being used, then what is pushing the pistons to keep the engine going? Air?
If the pistons are not being pushed via a series of small explosions, the engine in not running. As long as the RPM's are above zero, gasoline is being used.
I can not, and will not believe that an engine is running and not using gas.
Its just not possible.
I dont know how else to say it.
I understand what you all are saying the DFCO does.... I understand how you are saying it works, however, if it literally cut off all fuel to the engine, the engine would stall.
Please, make me understand how an engine runs without fuel so that I can see it from your side.
Simply telling me that a DFCO exists, and then telling me to take a ride in a modded car does not show me how it is possible to run an engine without gas.
If you can show me how that would be possible, I will gladly concede my point, but I dont think it is possible.
My point is that regardless of how little fuel it might be using, it is still using it.
If fuel is not being used, then what is pushing the pistons to keep the engine going? Air?
If the pistons are not being pushed via a series of small explosions, the engine in not running. As long as the RPM's are above zero, gasoline is being used.
I can not, and will not believe that an engine is running and not using gas.
Its just not possible.
I dont know how else to say it.
I understand what you all are saying the DFCO does.... I understand how you are saying it works, however, if it literally cut off all fuel to the engine, the engine would stall.
Please, make me understand how an engine runs without fuel so that I can see it from your side.
Simply telling me that a DFCO exists, and then telling me to take a ride in a modded car does not show me how it is possible to run an engine without gas.
If you can show me how that would be possible, I will gladly concede my point, but I dont think it is possible.
05-16-2007, 12:52 PM
#94
Senior Member
the momentum of the car means that even when no further forward forces are applied to the ground...the vehicle continues to move due to its velocity and weight (decellerating of course due to friction).
the momentum of the vehicle turns the wheels, which turns the drivetrain,
which pushes the pistons (assuming the clutch isnt pushed in)
the momentum of the vehicle turns the wheels, which turns the drivetrain,
which pushes the pistons (assuming the clutch isnt pushed in)
05-16-2007, 12:57 PM
#95
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-19-05
Location: Horseheads, NY
Posts: 3,018
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WHen the clutch is out everythign is connected
Pistons to the rods to the crank to the flywheel to the disc to the transmission to the axles to the hubs to the wheels to the tires..all connected
U have 2 options to make the **** move...make combustion in the chamber or turn the wheels Since ur coasting the wheels are turning...voila...the engine it turning without out using ANY fuel
05-16-2007, 01:00 PM
#96
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-03-06
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 4,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DFCO is mainly a protective feature for the catalytic converter and a way to reduce emissions due to lower fuel consumption.
Last edited by Witt; 05-16-2007 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Editted for clarity.
05-16-2007, 01:05 PM
#97
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-02-05
Location: The East Coast
Posts: 2,899
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I understand that inertia will keep the car moving, but the thing I am having trouble with here is that the engine moves the car, and in turn the wheels, the wheels moving dont run the engine.
if you were to start at the top of a hill with the engine off, put it in neutral (or in gear for that matter) and push, momentum is not going to get the engine working.
The power only goes in one direction, you cant turn your wheels and make your engine move.
Because if you really used no gas on de-cel, theoretically you should be able downshift, turn the key off, and have your engine still running. But if you turn the key off, the engine gets no more fuel and therefore stops running. You will still coast down the remainder of the hill, but that is simply because the car was already moving.
And that is my point, that even if you downshift and are not injecting fuel to move, your engine is still consuming fuel to run.
if you were to start at the top of a hill with the engine off, put it in neutral (or in gear for that matter) and push, momentum is not going to get the engine working.
The power only goes in one direction, you cant turn your wheels and make your engine move.
Because if you really used no gas on de-cel, theoretically you should be able downshift, turn the key off, and have your engine still running. But if you turn the key off, the engine gets no more fuel and therefore stops running. You will still coast down the remainder of the hill, but that is simply because the car was already moving.
And that is my point, that even if you downshift and are not injecting fuel to move, your engine is still consuming fuel to run.
05-16-2007, 01:10 PM
#98
Senior Member
Join Date: 10-28-06
Location: United States
Posts: 1,216
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is not correct. You will get better gas mileage by downshifting to a stop rather than coasting in neutral. Deceleration fuel cut off (DFCO) enables during a downshift. Since the wheels are directly connected to the engine, there is no need to add fuel. When you are in neutral, fuel is added to keep the engine running obviously.
Coasting to a stop is not only dangerous but illegal in my state.
Coasting to a stop is not only dangerous but illegal in my state.
But.. fuel will be added during throttle blip to rev-match.. effectively canceling out fuel savings.
If you dont rev match.. your probalby are a little harder on clutch and tranny parts than you should be.
Coasting Dangerous?.. not really.. totally depends on the situation and the loose nut behind the wheel...
05-16-2007, 01:13 PM
#99
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-02-05
Location: The East Coast
Posts: 2,899
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And please dont get me wrong, I am not trying to be an ass about this. I really do just want to understand.
If this is a real thing, great! And I am not saying it isnt real, I just want to make sure that I completely understand, and so far I dont.
If this is a real thing, great! And I am not saying it isnt real, I just want to make sure that I completely understand, and so far I dont.
