FAQ: Wheel hop and how to get rid of it.
11-27-2006, 07:37 AM
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FAQ: Wheel hop and how to get rid of it.
:Mods feel free to make this a sticky: 
OK first thing you need to know is what wheel hop is. Now most of you already know this but some of the new guys don't.
So, wheel hop is like putting a realy REALY big impact gun on your drive line. Its realy bad! What happens is you are asking for more from your tires then then can give you and they brake traction, but the problem is they don't just spin. See your
trying to go fast not smoke the tires so your only giving them enuff power to spin for a milla second and then they grab
traction agen and the cycle starts over.
Now that you know what it is you need to know what it can do to your car. Well simply put it brakes ****! You can brake
half shafts, the trans casing, the diff, and even blow the clutch apart. All of this is not going to be covered under your
warranty ether. GM knows there is a problem and what wheel hop will do to the car. If they see a car come in with any of
thous parts broken they will not fix your car unless you pay them to. Sorry.
Now you want to know how to get rid of it right? Well its actualy rather easy to do and its not vary expensive ether. We will be getting to that in a sec.
Now that you know what wheel hop is, and what it can do to your car, the next thing you need to know is why you get wheel hop and then you can fix the problem. Its not just one thing that is the sole cause of wheel hop but rather several things that together make it a big problem.
The first thing we are going to look at is the Control Arm Bushings. Or CABs for short. The stock ones are rubber and have voides in them to alow for free movement. The problem with this is that it also alows the control arm to move front to
back as well as up and down. Now up and down is good and is needed so that your suspension will work properly. But the front to back is the problem. This alows the wheel to lose traction do to alijnment changes and it also amplifies wheel hop.
To fix this problem you need to replace the rear control arm bushing with one made of poly to stop the front to back movement.
Traction bars can also help this but are more expensive and may restrict the up and down movement of the control arm as well as the front to back. I don't have a set to test with but this has been talked about on here before and the point my be
valid, so you will have to decide if there right for you or not.
The next thing that causes this is engine / transmission movement. When the car is lunched the motor and trans will shift back in the engine bay as long as you have traction. Now the instant your tires start to spin the motor and trans will shift back forward untill traction is regained. This is bad. As soon as traction is regained the motor and trans will rock back
in the engine bay agen and they cycle starts over. Now the big problem with this is that when the motor and trans rock back
they have to stop at some point. And when they do the power and torque they where absorbing from your wheels is instantly
transfered back to the wheels and this will cause them to brake lose. And that starts the wheels hoping.
To fix this you have some options. Some good. Some not so good. And some that just cost to much for what you get.
The first thing you should look at is the trans mounts. They are the biggest problem. They are like big versions of the
control arm bushings. They have large voids in them and are made of rubber. Now this will alow for that extra movement
that we don't want. So much so that the trans mount can be broken do the the bushing bottoming its self out and over stressing the whole mount.
Now you can replace the whole thing if you would like, but this is not needed unless you are making a lot of power. All you realy need is to replace the rubber inserts in the trans mounts with poly ones. Several places sell them and there less then $100.00 for the set. You will get one front and one rear. You will get some vibs from both the inserts and the full replacement mounts. But the inserts will not be as bad as a full mount. I give the inserts a 2.5-3 on a 1-10 scale for the vibes.
I would consider anything over a 6 to be more then what I would want for a daily driver. So they should be fine. As for the full mounts. I would say there a 5-6. There borderline for me but every one is different.
Next up is the motor mount. It to is to soft. Now again you have some options as to how you want to stop the movement of this mount. First thing you can do is replace the mount all together with a stiffer one. Thats expensive and will cause a lot of vibs for sure. But it will remove the most movement of any option. Next up is a torque damper. Now I am not a big fan of these as all they realy do is dampen the movement. Not stop it. And while they do help there is a cheaper way to get the same afect and still look stock. And that is to remove your stock mount and fill the bottom of it will poly your self. I bout one from ZZP that had this done to it and I love it. Almost no vibs at all and it did a great job. This is the cheapest way to improve the motor mount. Ill do an FAQ on this if needed later.
Now with all that done you should have no wheel hop on the street and you might or might not have some on the track. Depending on your track and what parts you used.
I used the CABs, Intense trans mount inserts, and ZZPs older poly filled stock motor mount and I have no wheel hop on the street and only a vary small amount at the track. And that small amount is easy to keep in check with my right foot.
There is one last thing that can be done to help with wheel hop, And that is to change the tires and or rims. The stock tires are prone to wheel hop and the stock heavy 18s are not helping here. But this up to you if you realy want to go that far.
Later And enjoy!
OK first thing you need to know is what wheel hop is. Now most of you already know this but some of the new guys don't.
So, wheel hop is like putting a realy REALY big impact gun on your drive line. Its realy bad! What happens is you are asking for more from your tires then then can give you and they brake traction, but the problem is they don't just spin. See your
trying to go fast not smoke the tires so your only giving them enuff power to spin for a milla second and then they grab
traction agen and the cycle starts over.
Now that you know what it is you need to know what it can do to your car. Well simply put it brakes ****! You can brake
half shafts, the trans casing, the diff, and even blow the clutch apart. All of this is not going to be covered under your
warranty ether. GM knows there is a problem and what wheel hop will do to the car. If they see a car come in with any of
thous parts broken they will not fix your car unless you pay them to. Sorry.
Now you want to know how to get rid of it right? Well its actualy rather easy to do and its not vary expensive ether. We will be getting to that in a sec.
Now that you know what wheel hop is, and what it can do to your car, the next thing you need to know is why you get wheel hop and then you can fix the problem. Its not just one thing that is the sole cause of wheel hop but rather several things that together make it a big problem.
The first thing we are going to look at is the Control Arm Bushings. Or CABs for short. The stock ones are rubber and have voides in them to alow for free movement. The problem with this is that it also alows the control arm to move front to
back as well as up and down. Now up and down is good and is needed so that your suspension will work properly. But the front to back is the problem. This alows the wheel to lose traction do to alijnment changes and it also amplifies wheel hop.
To fix this problem you need to replace the rear control arm bushing with one made of poly to stop the front to back movement.
Traction bars can also help this but are more expensive and may restrict the up and down movement of the control arm as well as the front to back. I don't have a set to test with but this has been talked about on here before and the point my be
valid, so you will have to decide if there right for you or not.
The next thing that causes this is engine / transmission movement. When the car is lunched the motor and trans will shift back in the engine bay as long as you have traction. Now the instant your tires start to spin the motor and trans will shift back forward untill traction is regained. This is bad. As soon as traction is regained the motor and trans will rock back
in the engine bay agen and they cycle starts over. Now the big problem with this is that when the motor and trans rock back
they have to stop at some point. And when they do the power and torque they where absorbing from your wheels is instantly
transfered back to the wheels and this will cause them to brake lose. And that starts the wheels hoping.
To fix this you have some options. Some good. Some not so good. And some that just cost to much for what you get.
The first thing you should look at is the trans mounts. They are the biggest problem. They are like big versions of the
control arm bushings. They have large voids in them and are made of rubber. Now this will alow for that extra movement
that we don't want. So much so that the trans mount can be broken do the the bushing bottoming its self out and over stressing the whole mount.
Now you can replace the whole thing if you would like, but this is not needed unless you are making a lot of power. All you realy need is to replace the rubber inserts in the trans mounts with poly ones. Several places sell them and there less then $100.00 for the set. You will get one front and one rear. You will get some vibs from both the inserts and the full replacement mounts. But the inserts will not be as bad as a full mount. I give the inserts a 2.5-3 on a 1-10 scale for the vibes.
I would consider anything over a 6 to be more then what I would want for a daily driver. So they should be fine. As for the full mounts. I would say there a 5-6. There borderline for me but every one is different.
Next up is the motor mount. It to is to soft. Now again you have some options as to how you want to stop the movement of this mount. First thing you can do is replace the mount all together with a stiffer one. Thats expensive and will cause a lot of vibs for sure. But it will remove the most movement of any option. Next up is a torque damper. Now I am not a big fan of these as all they realy do is dampen the movement. Not stop it. And while they do help there is a cheaper way to get the same afect and still look stock. And that is to remove your stock mount and fill the bottom of it will poly your self. I bout one from ZZP that had this done to it and I love it. Almost no vibs at all and it did a great job. This is the cheapest way to improve the motor mount. Ill do an FAQ on this if needed later.
Now with all that done you should have no wheel hop on the street and you might or might not have some on the track. Depending on your track and what parts you used.
I used the CABs, Intense trans mount inserts, and ZZPs older poly filled stock motor mount and I have no wheel hop on the street and only a vary small amount at the track. And that small amount is easy to keep in check with my right foot.
There is one last thing that can be done to help with wheel hop, And that is to change the tires and or rims. The stock tires are prone to wheel hop and the stock heavy 18s are not helping here. But this up to you if you realy want to go that far.
Later And enjoy!
Last edited by Badmunky; 11-27-2006 at 08:56 AM.
12-01-2006, 04:50 PM
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Nice info, this is the actully the first time I saw this. So the inserts cause less vibration than the whole poly mounts? I was thinking about getting the whole poly tranny mounts, CAB's, and the inserts for the egine mounts. Think this will be a good setup?
12-01-2006, 05:56 PM
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Yes sorry no Ingalls. Im not a fan of it my self. if you like it thats fine man thats what counts but I think better resalts can be had for les money with less nois and vibration.
As far as I know all of these parts exept the CABS will work on the 2.2L
But if you are not geting wheel hop its not realy neede.
HViper: CABS and trans mount inserts is a good setup. Add a motor mount or a moded stock one and you have a good set up for a good price.
Later
As far as I know all of these parts exept the CABS will work on the 2.2L
But if you are not geting wheel hop its not realy neede.
HViper: CABS and trans mount inserts is a good setup. Add a motor mount or a moded stock one and you have a good set up for a good price.
Later
12-01-2006, 07:57 PM
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So with the mounts nothing else is needed? Have you been to the track and test this? Just wondering as I'm interested in getting some and I do hate the noise/vibration of the ingalls but I want to make sure the polyurethane mounts is all I need. Not sure what engine mods you have so maybe you can't answer this completely. So does anyone know?
My suggestions for your write up are: I would check your spelling, do not use shortened words like poly, include pictures, try to get rid of any unnecessary sentences to keep it short and simple. Those are my suggestions and otherwise its a great write up!
My suggestions for your write up are: I would check your spelling, do not use shortened words like poly, include pictures, try to get rid of any unnecessary sentences to keep it short and simple. Those are my suggestions and otherwise its a great write up!
12-01-2006, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Badmunky
Wow! Over 50 vews and a week and no one has anything to say?
Any one?
Later
Any one?
Later
12-05-2006, 02:50 PM
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Thanks for the coments every one. Ill be doing some updates to this later. Including Pics and correcting spelling and what not. I was tired when I did this and have not had much time to get on line sins then.
I have been to the track with my setup and got vary little hop on the track.
I think trans mounts, a motor mount or moded stock on, and CABs will get rid of most if not all of your wheel hop.
And new tune with lower boost in 1st gear should get rid of the rest for you.
I have NO hop in 2nd at any time.
The wheels are no longer made. As far as I know I have the only set. Sorry.
Pm me if you need more info on them.
Later
I have been to the track with my setup and got vary little hop on the track.
I think trans mounts, a motor mount or moded stock on, and CABs will get rid of most if not all of your wheel hop.
And new tune with lower boost in 1st gear should get rid of the rest for you.
I have NO hop in 2nd at any time.
The wheels are no longer made. As far as I know I have the only set. Sorry.
Pm me if you need more info on them.
Later
12-05-2006, 04:22 PM
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The Ingalls damper is designed to work as an auxiliary motor mount. Its main goal is to restrict and dampen engine/drive train lash associated with Wheel Hop. Its not fair to tell these owners that inserts or solid mounts transmit little to no noise compared to the Ingalls ETD. Anyone with half a brain can see that Voids in the stock mounts are there to control NVH or Noise Vibration and Harshness. When you remove the voids you introduce the NVH back into the cabin.
12-09-2006, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Canyon Cruiser
The Ingalls damper is designed to work as an auxiliary motor mount. Its main goal is to restrict and dampen engine/drive train lash associated with Wheel Hop. Its not fair to tell these owners that inserts or solid mounts transmit little to no noise compared to the Ingalls ETD. Anyone with half a brain can see that Voids in the stock mounts are there to control NVH or Noise Vibration and Harshness. When you remove the voids you introduce the NVH back into the cabin.
I have the trans mount inserts and have ridden in a car with the EDT on it and my car vibes more at Idle, and on take off, but doesn't Vib after that.
The EDT car vibes all the time. And makes alot more noise then my car dose.
The next problem I have with them is there not as user friendly as mounts. There harder to install, need to be adjusted correctly to work right, and they don't look look stock.
I don't have to remove my mounts to go to the dealer.
And on top of all that its $50+ dollers more then the inserts.
Im sorry But the EDT is meant to dampen movement when realy you need to stop movement to get rid of wheel hop.
The stock mounts dampen movement!
Show me a race car the uses any thing like the EDT! They don't. And for good reason.
Now If others like them thats fine with me. If you want to buy one go ahead. I,m just not going to get one my self. After riding in a car for 2 hours that had one correctly installed I was not impressed at all. And I will not buy one.
Later
12-11-2006, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Badmunky
The problem is that the EDT is a bandaid for a problem not a cure.
I have the trans mount inserts and have ridden in a car with the EDT on it and my car vibes more at Idle, and on take off, but doesn't Vib after that.
The EDT car vibes all the time. And makes alot more noise then my car dose.
The next problem I have with them is there not as user friendly as mounts. There harder to install, need to be adjusted correctly to work right, and they don't look look stock.
I don't have to remove my mounts to go to the dealer.
And on top of all that its $50+ dollers more then the inserts.
Im sorry But the EDT is meant to dampen movement when realy you need to stop movement to get rid of wheel hop.
The stock mounts dampen movement!
Show me a race car the uses any thing like the EDT! They don't. And for good reason.
Now If others like them thats fine with me. If you want to buy one go ahead. I,m just not going to get one my self. After riding in a car for 2 hours that had one correctly installed I was not impressed at all. And I will not buy one.
Later
I have the trans mount inserts and have ridden in a car with the EDT on it and my car vibes more at Idle, and on take off, but doesn't Vib after that.
The EDT car vibes all the time. And makes alot more noise then my car dose.
The next problem I have with them is there not as user friendly as mounts. There harder to install, need to be adjusted correctly to work right, and they don't look look stock.
I don't have to remove my mounts to go to the dealer.
And on top of all that its $50+ dollers more then the inserts.
Im sorry But the EDT is meant to dampen movement when realy you need to stop movement to get rid of wheel hop.
The stock mounts dampen movement!
Show me a race car the uses any thing like the EDT! They don't. And for good reason.
Now If others like them thats fine with me. If you want to buy one go ahead. I,m just not going to get one my self. After riding in a car for 2 hours that had one correctly installed I was not impressed at all. And I will not buy one.
Later
12-11-2006, 02:11 PM
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Exactly^
People need to buy what they want.
I just gave my point of view on them.
But its up to they person thats going to pay for the part in the end.
Later
People need to buy what they want.
I just gave my point of view on them.
But its up to they person thats going to pay for the part in the end.
Later
12-17-2006, 11:15 AM
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I say control arm bushings and an ETD should take care of most if not all of the wheel hop and improve the shifting with the least amount of vibrations.
12-19-2006, 07:40 PM
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How about lowering?? As long as it's done correctly, I believe that lowering the car would help to eliminate the weight transfer to the rear which is also a contributor to the wheel hop. This way your not launching in a car that feels like an airplane trying to take off. Nice write-up though.
12-19-2006, 08:08 PM
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^Good point. I did this to give people options and I forgot that one.
This should help stop wheel hope to. But from what I have read from lowerd members they say it did not improve traction. Although it should. I need more info on this befor I can post about it one way or the other.
Later
This should help stop wheel hope to. But from what I have read from lowerd members they say it did not improve traction. Although it should. I need more info on this befor I can post about it one way or the other.
Later
12-19-2006, 08:22 PM
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Shifting weight from the front to the rear will actually decrease the force pushing down on the drive wheels in our FWD configuration. Typically the more weight you have on the drive wheels the more bite they will have. Results would be less traction for a lowered vehicle.
12-19-2006, 08:29 PM
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is anyone running the traction bars I want to get either the bars or the cab's just wondering what works the best. I guess the bars can be removed for daily driving and then installed for the track.
12-19-2006, 08:35 PM
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my dealers tech guy said he was thinking of adding the ingalls as an optional upgrade for the car. not a bad idea. I called to ask about the staged kits and got dissapointed when he said that more power will more than likely ruin my clutch and if i get a better clutch it damage the flywheel and pressure plate. its a catch twenty two. then he said if the aftermarket clutch damaged anything it would not be covered on the extended warranty or otherwise and the stock clutch is only covered until 12,000 miles? sorry to get off subject but im scared to upgrade the car if it will not be covered in another 5000 miles when i paid for 75000 extended warranty. Will any of these options void the warranty is what i was trying to get at. Tell me what you guys think or know.
12-19-2006, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by johnny
Buying a RWD car would help my wheel hop alot...
The reason you get wheel hop is because there is not enough power to completely spin the tires, its the fine line that runs between bogging the car, and just sitting there spinning.
Launch too low, wheel hop or bog...launch high RPM = wheel spin...
I have Solid motor mounts (complete mount replacements) offered by a vendor on the RLF forums. They COMPLETELY stop any motor/trans movement. They are also easy to install and remove for daily driving. I do not have solid CABS...and i dont think they really do as much as what the price of them dictates. but thats my :2cent:...
...I was able to get a 1.7 60' on just SMM's and Drag Radials...with no wheel hop. I launch (on the track only) at 4-5K...