80mm TVS Dyno
03-08-2010 | 11:58 AM
#76
Joined: 12-30-07
Posts: 14,331
Likes: 197
From: NEPA
Just read your article in it's entirety this is what a think you were referring to.
"Straight cut velocity stacks, for example, pose a unique problem. Exposed to the outside air, velocity stacks experience a phenomena that actually hinders performance at high speed. We are referring to stacks and air horns that protrude through the hood and extend into the air stream so the direction of the air rushing over the car is at a perpendicular angle to the length of the tube.
Air moving rapidly over these stacks create turbulence inside the opening. At high speed, the rushing air tends to create a partial vacuum inside the tube. The condition is counterproductive to air flow. The phenomena also effects open carburetors. The higher the ground speed, the greater the problem. Vacuum created by the engine is trying to coax air into the cylinders and the high speed air flowing over the open end of the stack is causing resistance."
That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. A supercharger is PULLING air through much greater than engine vacuum for one. Two this is referring to open air "velocity stacks" which is has nothing to do with this either.In taking the filter out you are simply allowing the supercharger to breath better and create less heat. It's the same concept as haveing a cutout or bigger exhaust on the back end. You are helping the engine and supercharger breath. That is all.
IT WORKS TRUST ME!
"Straight cut velocity stacks, for example, pose a unique problem. Exposed to the outside air, velocity stacks experience a phenomena that actually hinders performance at high speed. We are referring to stacks and air horns that protrude through the hood and extend into the air stream so the direction of the air rushing over the car is at a perpendicular angle to the length of the tube.
Air moving rapidly over these stacks create turbulence inside the opening. At high speed, the rushing air tends to create a partial vacuum inside the tube. The condition is counterproductive to air flow. The phenomena also effects open carburetors. The higher the ground speed, the greater the problem. Vacuum created by the engine is trying to coax air into the cylinders and the high speed air flowing over the open end of the stack is causing resistance."
That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. A supercharger is PULLING air through much greater than engine vacuum for one. Two this is referring to open air "velocity stacks" which is has nothing to do with this either.In taking the filter out you are simply allowing the supercharger to breath better and create less heat. It's the same concept as haveing a cutout or bigger exhaust on the back end. You are helping the engine and supercharger breath. That is all.
IT WORKS TRUST ME!
03-08-2010 | 12:00 PM
#77
Banned
Joined: 12-19-09
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Harrisburg, pa
That is not was I was referring to. What I was referring to were the facts about air filters in general, and how they reduce turbulence and straighten air flow. I wasn't refering to velocity stacks, although the article mentions them. That was my fault, and I should have been more specific.
Here is the smartest thing said in this entire article:
"In the vast majority of cases increased airflow will increase engine performance measured by horsepower and throttle response (torque). The performance benefits of maximum airflow are clear, compelling and well documented. That is why so many professional racers are willing to run expensive vehicles with no air filter, as opposed to installing a disposable air filter. They are seeking the additional horsepower and throttle response needed to win the race."
03-08-2010 | 02:41 PM
#79
Senior Member
Joined: 02-09-09
Posts: 4,377
Likes: 5
From: Tejas
The bottom line is less intake restriction means more air in easier... more air means more power. That's pretty straighforward.
The tricky part comes in when you start taking into account engine life with unfiltered air and the other conditions that change, such as MAF skewing that could occur.
It's not uncommon for cars that drag race to have the turbo compressor end sticking out of the hood or something with air going directly into it and to the engine unfiltered. They rebuild their engines on a regular basis though, in some cases after every run.
Example of unfiltered, exposed compressor:
The tricky part comes in when you start taking into account engine life with unfiltered air and the other conditions that change, such as MAF skewing that could occur.
It's not uncommon for cars that drag race to have the turbo compressor end sticking out of the hood or something with air going directly into it and to the engine unfiltered. They rebuild their engines on a regular basis though, in some cases after every run.
Example of unfiltered, exposed compressor:
Last edited by Stamina; 03-08-2010 at 02:58 PM.
03-08-2010 | 03:45 PM
#80
Senior Member
Joined: 03-12-07
Posts: 1,586
Likes: 0
From: Columbus, Ohio
03-08-2010 | 04:26 PM
#81
Joined: 12-30-07
Posts: 14,331
Likes: 197
From: NEPA
The bottom line is less intake restriction means more air in easier... more air means more power. That's pretty straighforward.
The tricky part comes in when you start taking into account engine life with unfiltered air and the other conditions that change, such as MAF skewing that could occur.
It's not uncommon for cars that drag race to have the turbo compressor end sticking out of the hood or something with air going directly into it and to the engine unfiltered. They rebuild their engines on a regular basis though, in some cases after every run.
Example of unfiltered, exposed compressor:
The tricky part comes in when you start taking into account engine life with unfiltered air and the other conditions that change, such as MAF skewing that could occur.
It's not uncommon for cars that drag race to have the turbo compressor end sticking out of the hood or something with air going directly into it and to the engine unfiltered. They rebuild their engines on a regular basis though, in some cases after every run.
Example of unfiltered, exposed compressor:
03-08-2010 | 08:17 PM
#82
Banned
Joined: 12-19-09
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Harrisburg, pa
03-08-2010 | 08:27 PM
#83
Joined: 12-30-07
Posts: 14,331
Likes: 197
From: NEPA
No one on this site with half a brain will risk their car in order to see if running without a filter will add a few horsepower. If it did add horsepower to our cars, it wouldnt mean anything other than a dyno number, because you cant drive on the streets without one anyways. This is useless. You can gain safe horsepower else where.
03-08-2010 | 08:29 PM
#84
03-09-2010 | 08:02 AM
#85
Banned
Joined: 12-19-09
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Harrisburg, pa
When I take it to the dyno and run it at the track yes I take out the filter. No particles make their way anywhere, and I have noticed upwards of a 2mph gain with just taking out the filter and opening the exhaust cutout. You really aren't risking anything. You piping is inside your car not outside. The only thing you would suck into it would be from the engine bay itself, and if that is clean you are good to go.
I guarantee the first person to do it will notice the gain and will do this at the track and dyno everytime!
Safety is definately one the, but someone coming in here and saying that removing an obsticle to airflow will lose hp is just plain wrong. Common sense should come into play somewhere.
I guarantee the first person to do it will notice the gain and will do this at the track and dyno everytime!
Safety is definately one the, but someone coming in here and saying that removing an obsticle to airflow will lose hp is just plain wrong. Common sense should come into play somewhere.
03-09-2010 | 08:11 AM
#86
Joined: 12-30-07
Posts: 14,331
Likes: 197
From: NEPA
When I take it to the dyno and run it at the track yes I take out the filter. No particles make their way anywhere, and I have noticed upwards of a 2mph gain with just taking out the filter and opening the exhaust cutout. You really aren't risking anything. You piping is inside your car not outside. The only thing you would suck into it would be from the engine bay itself, and if that is clean you are good to go.
I guarantee the first person to do it will notice the gain and will do this at the track and dyno everytime!
Safety is definately one the, but someone coming in here and saying that removing an obsticle to airflow will lose hp is just plain wrong. Common sense should come into play somewhere.
I guarantee the first person to do it will notice the gain and will do this at the track and dyno everytime!
Safety is definately one the, but someone coming in here and saying that removing an obsticle to airflow will lose hp is just plain wrong. Common sense should come into play somewhere.
(I) never said you would loose horsepower. Me, along with others on here told you running without a filter will likely cause turbulence, which in turn could skew MAF readings. Skewed MAF readings are not a good thing, and are not worth the hassle to see if someone could possibly gain a little horsepower by removing the air filter.
By the way what do you drive ??
*EDIT*
1993 Ford Probe GT
- You can not compare the mods you do to your Probe to a Cobalt/Ion RL. Our intake tract is entirely different. The maf sensors on Cobalts/Redlines are very sensitive. The part highlighted in bold proves you don't know much about Cobalts/Ion RL's. Our intake tract ducts into the fenders (ie. cold air intake) where particles from the road reach. Hell, I just recently changed my air filter, and there was a bunch of sand/slit in the fender well. I don't even drive my car in bad weather, and still had all that **** in there. No way would I ever even attempt running my car without an air filter.
Last edited by Staged07SS; 03-09-2010 at 08:41 AM.
03-09-2010 | 09:00 AM
#87
Senior Member
Joined: 03-12-07
Posts: 1,586
Likes: 0
From: Columbus, Ohio
majeebus, why not take your car (or in a perfect world, a ss/sc or IRL) and show the before after differences of taking your filter off on a dyno?
then drive the car home and take off the supercharger and notice all the damage you have just done to the supercharger rotors, and all the **** that's now caught in the laminova cores.
then drive the car home and take off the supercharger and notice all the damage you have just done to the supercharger rotors, and all the **** that's now caught in the laminova cores.
03-09-2010 | 12:10 PM
#88
Banned
Joined: 12-19-09
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Harrisburg, pa
That is not a biased article at all. The article states facts that pertain to all types of filters. Like Area said, to dyno without a filter will do more harm then good. I will state what I said before .... Air filters are not on cars just to filter air. They are there to also reduce turbulence and straighten out the air flow. In the end, Ebristol will more than likely loose some horsepower if he were to take the air filter off
never said you would loose horsepower. Me, along with others on here told you running without a filter will likely cause turbulence, which in turn could skew MAF readings. Skewed MAF readings are not a good thing, and are not worth the hassle to see if someone could possibly gain a little horsepower by removing the air filter.
Also I Mentioned in a previous thread of my experiences with mustangs that utilize a much less sofisticated maf system than the ones on here. They are boosting into them and it's not doing anything. Which has more turbulence a turbo or not filter? Come one people!
I'll say again if you don't want to do it becuase of sucking **** up into the sc fine so be it. But quit saying he will lose hp then saying you didn't say that when you did!
Everyone here has a completely valid arguement about it not filtering. YOU specifically saying it will lose hp because of the MAF and turbulence etc is just misinformation.
03-09-2010 | 12:53 PM
#89
Joined: 12-30-07
Posts: 14,331
Likes: 197
From: NEPA
You clearly said in the above post that he would LOSE hp. Quit changing what you are saying. You are NOT damaging anything running without a filter on a dyno and at a prepped 1/4 mile track. I'm not saying to drive around all day with it off.
Also I Mentioned in a previous thread of my experiences with mustangs that utilize a much less sofisticated maf system than the ones on here. They are boosting into them and it's not doing anything. Which has more turbulence a turbo or not filter? Come one people!
I'll say again if you don't want to do it becuase of sucking **** up into the sc fine so be it. But quit saying he will lose hp then saying you didn't say that when you did!
Everyone here has a completely valid arguement about it not filtering. YOU specifically saying it will lose hp because of the MAF and turbulence etc is just misinformation.
Also I Mentioned in a previous thread of my experiences with mustangs that utilize a much less sofisticated maf system than the ones on here. They are boosting into them and it's not doing anything. Which has more turbulence a turbo or not filter? Come one people!
I'll say again if you don't want to do it becuase of sucking **** up into the sc fine so be it. But quit saying he will lose hp then saying you didn't say that when you did!
Everyone here has a completely valid arguement about it not filtering. YOU specifically saying it will lose hp because of the MAF and turbulence etc is just misinformation.
Also, I can care less if I've altered what i said to you during this useless, on going argument, because in the end no one (on this site) will care about your theory of taking off the filter to gain horsepower. I'm done going in circles with you over such a ridiculous topic, but i do look forward to debating with you in the future. It's been fun.
Last edited by Staged07SS; 03-09-2010 at 02:36 PM.
03-22-2010 | 10:45 AM
#90
07-23-2010 | 10:14 AM
#95
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/dyno-results-170/303whp-w-m62-stock-longblock-im-i-highest-222466/
07-23-2010 | 05:28 PM
#96
As I said before congrats Eric! And as you know I have a bad itch to get on the dyno...just none around 
well there is one, but everyone gets RIDICULOUSLY high numbers on it. But hey I could be the first to put down 350whp on the stock blower 
that sketchy dyno
well there is one, but everyone gets RIDICULOUSLY high numbers on it. But hey I could be the first to put down 350whp on the stock blower that sketchy dyno
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post