Hammbones

iTrader: (1)

So I'm "brainstorming" how I am going to "manufacturer" the result in my head and I was curious about wiring.

What I am planning on doing is a Retrofit Skyline Tails mod and its going to take a little bit of thinking before I put ideas in motion. I'm curious about how wiring would work for my idea.

Essentially, the current Brake Light / Turn Signal bulb for the Cobalts is the 3157 Double Filament bulb. What I am trying to do is isolate the functions and seperate them thus wiring them into 2 seperate bulbs.

The brake light / daytime running light would retain its current function (Brake Applied = Brighter output). I want to seperate the "blinking" or "signal" function from these to work in all 4 tail lights at a different location.

The thing I am trying to accomplish is making the RINGS in the above diagram light up when the brake is applied and the inner circle of those rings will be my turn signals.

Will I need to purchase a second set of wiring harnesses to install in the inner tail lights to get those to light up? Furthermore, How do I isolate the turn signal from the Brake lights?

The rings serve just 2 functions:
1. Rings are dim while DRL are active
2. Rings are bright while brake is applied

The inner circles in all 4 lights will serve 1 function as my turn signal and must only light up while the turn signal (Left or Right) is active.

Here is the best way I can explain it in pictures. Hopefully someone understands what I'm thinking about and give me some insight to the wiring part of it.






Thanks again for looking. And the Cobalt pictured is 06Cobalt (thanks for the indirect help)

c1_c1rca

interesting good luck with the project.. i was thinking about doing something like this but i got a g5 so i dont have the inner lights and it would just look fucked on my car

thebucky84

iTrader: (4)

what about ur reverse lights, keeping those where they are?.. deff gonna keep an eye on this to see how it goes. Good luck!

Hammbones

iTrader: (1)

Another question that just popped into my head was - Will I be ok with just grounding the "ground" wire to the body or do I need to be sure that the ground stays connected as it is factory?

and Thanks =) Hopefully the project goes well and Ill be posting pictures and videos in the Appearance forums once I have a few questions answered.

Hammbones

iTrader: (1)

I'm moving the Reverse lights to into the Grill on the bottom of my bumper. Just waiting to start butchering the electrical in my rear end to hear from the gods of electrical wiring to be sure this is something plausible.

c1_c1rca

putting the ground to your body will work

thebucky84

iTrader: (4)

yeah, ground is ground. Unless you are working with a signal ground then it's different. The lights should be chassis ground anyway.

c4w18

Relays man, its all about some SPDTs.

Garret

iTrader: (1)

if you dont know how to ground a wire then your going to have a hell of a time working the rest of it out

Acey

iTrader: (3)

I assure you that it's plausible since I did this exact thing, minus the DRL bit. Soon after I bailed on it cause it looked like crap. Relays aren't really the key, you'll probably need a pair since you want DRL for whatever reason... but the only annoying this is running turn signal wire from the front to separate it from the brakes. From there it's smooth sailing. Sub'd for outcome pics.

Either the Passat or Jetta has this setup, I think. Can't remember which. For me, if I'm going thru the trouble of separating the turn signal, I'm going to make them amber. Which is what I'm doing right now.

NCC-2000

Tapping into the front signals is easier if you do it at the BCM instead of the front of the car. Less wire to run.

MastaShaKe_88

iTrader: (5)

I was thinking of doin somethin like this, but couldn't figure out how to do it
after seein bout funning to the front tho got me I might have to jock yer style since I'm bout to redo mine... in for pics an progress 2 btw

Acey

iTrader: (3)

Truth.

Hammbones

iTrader: (1)

Essentially the "DRL" feature would only be when the Lights are actually on Such as Headlights on and the Tail lights are dimly lit until the brake is applied. I'm not concerned with running it actually during the daytime but I just didn't know how else to put it.

Its the Passat that has the setup. Unfortunately the Tail light assemblies cost 180 each and it wouldn't really be a budget build unless I had 400 bucks to throw away. Especially since if I get this wrong, I'm out for the cost of the lights themselves.

I was actually thinking about an easier setup and it would take a little bit of "workmanship" on my part manufacturing the LED Board and wiring it all correctly. I really hate the way LED Tails have the gap between each LED, just looks lower quality IMHO.

BCM = Battery Control Module. I'm really clueless as to what this actually is or where I can find it. I'll admit that I'm an amateur with the electrical aspect on this car specifically so any more information about the "BCM" where I can find it, etc would be extremely useful.


On another note, I PM'd another guy I saw doing a similar project with LED strips last night on about his wiring diagram. Hopefully if he gets back to me, I can actually see how this is done.

Another issue I foresee with this is creating the Inner Tails actually function like the outer tails. Would I just need to tap into the wires running into the outer tails to gain this? Would I need to run an inline fuse to avoid popping the fuse up front?

Zero6LS

Damn dude good luck. It should look sick when it's done. Sub'd for results

Acey

iTrader: (3)

BCM = Body Control Module... basically the computer that runs the show, makes the simulated clicky noises for our turn signals, stores odometer info, all lights, etc. She sits underneath the radio in the center console if you rip off the panel on the passenger side. It's just held in by clips (like everything else in our interior) but it's a bit stiff the first time.

The LED's you put in will add a negligible amount of current... you won't need additional inline fuses or to increase the amperage of any fuses up front.

07Maliboo

iTrader: (2)

hmm, I see what you're going for and it would look cool, but the brake ad turn signals are all on one wire, without programming the bcm, and adding another wire, you wont be able to get the brake lights to function separately from the turn signals. but you could however have running lights as rings on the outside and have brakes and turns light up the inside of your lens.

and you can easily separate the drl's from the brakes, there's actually three wires on the plug for the rear lights, one groun, one for drl, and one for brakes and turns, but there's not really any way to separated braking from turning as it's really just an applied voltage used for both. now if you ran a plc or programmable logic chip you could achieve this, but it'd be highly time consuming and to be honest not worth the time and effort, let alone the cost and unreliability.

There's also no really simple way to remove the gap between led's on any pcb board, to put them so close would be time consuming an to be honest less reliable. you're best option would be to fab up some sort of facia that covered the leds and made them look as one circular light, but that's not going to be bright enoguh to shine through the tail light housings themselves unless you have clear lenses. You could mount smd's a few mm apart, but you will still have some gap, not because the lights are separated, but because if the tail lenses have a design inside of them to reflect and refract light as much as possible. there'es really not much of a way to avoid it other than clear lenses. which is my next step, when I do my angry eye mod. whic hwill be a while from now.

outtamymind

a work around for the signals would be the front signal wiring. but that is alot of wire running

Hammbones

iTrader: (1)

But wouldn't that be the same thing as running it from the rear using the brakes? I usually drive with my Fog Lamps on during the day which makes my parking lights on too, What you are suggesting is basically just stripping the turn signal insulation off, splicing into that and running a wire to the rear of the vehicle so when the turn sign activates, it would just blink like the front ones do, or will they be dim and blink brighter?

I don't mind running wire as long as the result is the way I want it. Sure beats reprogramming the BCM in my eyes =/

NCC-2000

You can't separate the brake and turn signals from the rear of the car, they only use one wire back there for them. That's why if you want separated signals, you have to either run wires from the front signals to the back, or find the front turn signal wires on the BCM and run wires from there. You would then have to cut the original wires going to the rear outer lights and tap them into the brake wire going to the third brake light, since that doesn't flash with any signals. In the process of doing that though you would make the car think a bulb is burnt out since the rear lights are not connected any more so you'd have to wire in some load equalizing resistors as if you were installing LED bulbs since they cause the same problem.

This project is entirely possible, it just all depends on how much patience you have to do it all because it involves a lot of modifying to accomplish.

Acey

iTrader: (3)

The following works flawlessly on my car:

1) Run a brake light signal from the center brake light.
2) Run turn signals from the BCM.
3) Use resistors if anything hyper flashes
4) Stop calling the parking/running lights DRL (DAYTIME running lamps) cause that's confusing the hell out of me

NCC-2000

Ironically, considering I've recommended doing this myself above lol, I haven't managed to find these wires myself yet, otherwise I'd have done my own project by now. Care to point me in the right direction?

c4w18

http://rapidshare.com/files/45483334...oletCobalt.pdf

that's for a 2006...if you don't have a 2006, call up DEI tech support and ask them to email you a sheet for your specific year. It pins out the BCM for you.

Hammbones

iTrader: (1)

I chewed on everything posted so far and there were a few issues I had to actually go to my car and turn the lights on to figure out and they are really complicated to explain. However, I think the best way to approach is a combination of what NCC 2000 has said and Acey has said.

I have a pretty good idea how this will go together physically but where can I get load equalizers that will work for this application?

**EDIT**

The cogs and gears are turning fast right now in my head and I was curious, would it be easier to install a relay on the turn signal to just reroute the signal power to a seperate bulb in all 4 housings?

If I decided to wire from the BCM or front turn signals, how would I eliminate the signal indicator on the stock setup to where only the low intensity (headlights are on) and the high intensity (brakes applied)? If I wired it from the BCM wouldn't it still retain the same function as the front signals? Low (parking lights) and High Blinking (signals)?

If someone that has a similar setup to these show me a wiring schematic for the 2 bulb sockets and each of the wires and each one of the wires' function?

Such as:

Socket 1
- Red Wire - Function (Parking Lights)
- Green Wire - Function (Brake Lights + Signal Lights)
- Black Wire - Function (I'm pretty sure this is Ground)

Socket 2
- Red Wire - Function (Parking Lights)
- Blue Wire - Function (Brake Lights + Signal Lights)
- Black Wire - Function (I'm pretty sure this is Ground)

Its starting to confuse the **** out of me...

Hammbones

iTrader: (1)

This is my attempt at a wiring diagram from what I gather from everyone's posts so far explaining it to me:



I kept it large so you can see what I'm thinking. It looks all garbled and chaotic but the lines represent wire, where they stop on the inside and outside rings of the tail lights correspond to the functions I am trying to accomplish.

I do realize that I didn't draw the wire for the outside tails outer ring to have brakes, I did that by mistake and yes I do intend on splitting the power from the 3rd brake light 4 ways to work each ring's brake light function.

From what I understand by using the 3rd Brake lights "brake light feature, I will basically be putting 2 load equalizers on the lines going into the bulb socket for "BRAKES + SIGNAL" to fool the BCM into thinking there is still a functioning bulb there. Each of the stock sockets will have the BRAKES + Signal light removed from the power ballast and a load equalizer will be placed on each of the brake + signal wires.

If I maintain the same bulbs I am using and just using a custom manufacturer light shroud to seperate the inside of the lense into 2 parts, inner ring and outer ring. By adding 4 more bulb sockets to the system what do I need to install on the wiring to ensure everything is powered correctly?