J. Rayth's 3k system install
03-14-2008, 05:40 PM
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I have a question
How are you going to go about battling the deck lid rattles. I look through all the pics but couldn't see any clear pics on the top of the deck lid.
While I'm sure you applied tons of sound dead. materials to it, the problem that I ran into was all the plastic pieces that hold the trim on. The pieces that go over the bolts on the headrest, the ones that cover the child seat tie downs and the worst offender (IMO) the two parts that clip in right where the seat latches are, that are actually part of the inside quarter panels. They all rattle like b**ch.
I'm not trying to deminish your install in any way, its competition worthy and I only wish I had the time/knowledge to do the same myself, what I am trying to do is solve this problem myself and was looking to see what steps you took to do the same.
BTW-Your buddy doesn't want to come spend a week or two in Vancouver/the trunk of my car, does he?
He's doing a good job, you muist have had to promise him your first born, good friends like that are hard to find
How are you going to go about battling the deck lid rattles. I look through all the pics but couldn't see any clear pics on the top of the deck lid.
While I'm sure you applied tons of sound dead. materials to it, the problem that I ran into was all the plastic pieces that hold the trim on. The pieces that go over the bolts on the headrest, the ones that cover the child seat tie downs and the worst offender (IMO) the two parts that clip in right where the seat latches are, that are actually part of the inside quarter panels. They all rattle like b**ch.
I'm not trying to deminish your install in any way, its competition worthy and I only wish I had the time/knowledge to do the same myself, what I am trying to do is solve this problem myself and was looking to see what steps you took to do the same.
BTW-Your buddy doesn't want to come spend a week or two in Vancouver/the trunk of my car, does he?
He's doing a good job, you muist have had to promise him your first born, good friends like that are hard to find
And he is awesome.As for the rear speaker deck, we used Damplifier on the bottom in specific places to reduce the vibrations but not block the sound from coming up. We haven't done the top of the deck yet (which is why you haven't seen pictures yet), but any bolts that rattle during our tests will be screwed down over small pieces of Overkill Pro to reduce the rattles. We are still debating whether to put a full sheet of Overkill (the regular stuff, thinner then OK Pro) over the rear deck or not as we don't want to restrict sound coming from the trunk, but we do want to eliminate any loose metal on metal. I am actually taking the headrests off since they're cheap non-adjustable headrests that get in my way looking out the back window, and just covering it with the plastic covers. If any of the covers rattle, we'll use the regular Overkill as a sandwich layer to nix the slight gap causing the vibration.
We already tested the effectiveness of Overkill on the outside door handles. They would rattle normally, but with a little strip of Overkill where the handle contacts the body, it eliminates the rattle and doesn't make the handle stick out since it is spring loaded. Works like a champ.
--Oh yeah, and we also sprayed a shload of Spectrum up in the rear speaker deck, which may have already eliminated any rattles besides the plastic covers (since they attach to the cover itself and not the frame).
Last edited by James Rayth; 03-14-2008 at 05:40 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
03-14-2008, 06:23 PM
#102
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03-14-2008, 06:46 PM
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Wooty WOOOOOOOT! I just ordered another 40 sqft of Damplifier so I can finish my doors and 2 sheets of Overkill for various rattles and stuff. I also hooked up Brannan with 80 sqft of Overkill and 8 sheets of Heat Wave Pro for all the help, and so we can knock the rattles and heat in his work van's cabin down. I love buying things!!!
I love buying things!!!
03-14-2008, 09:03 PM
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And if I ever take it on a road trip, I'll throw the tire in the back seat.
03-15-2008, 02:05 AM
#106
You read our minds. Brannan is actually calling Kinetic to find out of the batteries can be mounted sideways since they are a dry cell battery. As long as they give us the OK, we will be mounting the battery sideways in there along with the 4ch amp (Arc-FD4100) and the relay. We are trying to leave as much of the upper trunk available because I have already been thinking about getting a second FD-1200.1 amp to be able to push each sub at 1080w @ 2ohm, or possibly saving up to get a Arc-4000se and having ~2100w to each channel so I can jump the subs up to 9112's later on.
lol im glad im not the only one to have seen that commercial
I bet he would love to come up there, but you would have to arrange labor with him. Work isn't free, time is money. And he is awesome.
As for the rear speaker deck, we used Damplifier on the bottom in specific places to reduce the vibrations but not block the sound from coming up. We haven't done the top of the deck yet (which is why you haven't seen pictures yet), but any bolts that rattle during our tests will be screwed down over small pieces of Overkill Pro to reduce the rattles. We are still debating whether to put a full sheet of Overkill (the regular stuff, thinner then OK Pro) over the rear deck or not as we don't want to restrict sound coming from the trunk, but we do want to eliminate any loose metal on metal. I am actually taking the headrests off since they're cheap non-adjustable headrests that get in my way looking out the back window, and just covering it with the plastic covers. If any of the covers rattle, we'll use the regular Overkill as a sandwich layer to nix the slight gap causing the vibration.
We already tested the effectiveness of Overkill on the outside door handles. They would rattle normally, but with a little strip of Overkill where the handle contacts the body, it eliminates the rattle and doesn't make the handle stick out since it is spring loaded. Works like a champ.
--Oh yeah, and we also sprayed a shload of Spectrum up in the rear speaker deck, which may have already eliminated any rattles besides the plastic covers (since they attach to the cover itself and not the frame).
And he is awesome.As for the rear speaker deck, we used Damplifier on the bottom in specific places to reduce the vibrations but not block the sound from coming up. We haven't done the top of the deck yet (which is why you haven't seen pictures yet), but any bolts that rattle during our tests will be screwed down over small pieces of Overkill Pro to reduce the rattles. We are still debating whether to put a full sheet of Overkill (the regular stuff, thinner then OK Pro) over the rear deck or not as we don't want to restrict sound coming from the trunk, but we do want to eliminate any loose metal on metal. I am actually taking the headrests off since they're cheap non-adjustable headrests that get in my way looking out the back window, and just covering it with the plastic covers. If any of the covers rattle, we'll use the regular Overkill as a sandwich layer to nix the slight gap causing the vibration.
We already tested the effectiveness of Overkill on the outside door handles. They would rattle normally, but with a little strip of Overkill where the handle contacts the body, it eliminates the rattle and doesn't make the handle stick out since it is spring loaded. Works like a champ.
--Oh yeah, and we also sprayed a shload of Spectrum up in the rear speaker deck, which may have already eliminated any rattles besides the plastic covers (since they attach to the cover itself and not the frame).
Last edited by EmperorJJ1; 03-15-2008 at 02:05 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
03-15-2008, 12:51 PM
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But realistically, 90% of the time it will just be front seat passengers and we'll have the back seat down.
03-15-2008, 01:46 PM
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One thing that I've wondered is why would one invest 2000+ watts into subwoofer sound and not the same into the cab speakers and perhaps at least half of that for subs. Sorry if I sound a bit undereducated about this, but it is something I've always wondered if someone could explain why.
03-15-2008, 04:18 PM
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One thing that I've wondered is why would one invest 2000+ watts into subwoofer sound and not the same into the cab speakers and perhaps at least half of that for subs. Sorry if I sound a bit undereducated about this, but it is something I've always wondered if someone could explain why.
If you take somebody interested in accurate sound reproduction, the wattage distribution would be more equal, however bigger speakers move more air and thus need more power. In a minimalist s/q design, you would have good components up front setting the "front stage" and a good responsive sub to deliver the lower bass notes; but nothing extreme. Depending on the size of the subwoofer, you may miss notes really low on the frequency scales. That is where subwoofer size will sometimes make a difference, but not all the time. It depends on the frequency response of the subwoofer.
So more simply put, the subwoofer needs more power to have the same output as a smaller component speaker. 100w to a good component system (like my Arc 6000's) will give you really loud mid's and highs, but 100w to a sub designed to pick up low bass notes would usually get you a whisper of sound.
03-15-2008, 08:05 PM
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^^^Money and smarts lol
let me know what they say about the battery location...emperor said he has his mounted sideways....
also wat about the pictures emperor?
let me know what they say about the battery location...emperor said he has his mounted sideways....
also wat about the pictures emperor?
03-15-2008, 08:09 PM
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Head unit and EQ teaser pics
Well since we are kind of in limbo waiting for the box and rest of the sound dampening materials to arrive, we hooked the deck up to the 4ch amp and the Arc-6000's (which by the way sound AMAZING!!). So, here are the pics of the beautiful head unit.
Flash on (dusty as hell since it was just taken out of the box):
No flash (dark shot, a bit blurry cuz this cam sucks at no light shots):
And this is where we are mounting the EQ. It looks sooooooo good!
Well since we are kind of in limbo waiting for the box and rest of the sound dampening materials to arrive, we hooked the deck up to the 4ch amp and the Arc-6000's (which by the way sound AMAZING!!). So, here are the pics of the beautiful head unit.
Flash on (dusty as hell since it was just taken out of the box):
No flash (dark shot, a bit blurry cuz this cam sucks at no light shots):
And this is where we are mounting the EQ. It looks sooooooo good!
03-16-2008, 01:04 AM
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Head unit and EQ teaser pics
Well since we are kind of in limbo waiting for the box and rest of the sound dampening materials to arrive, we hooked the deck up to the 4ch amp and the Arc-6000's (which by the way sound AMAZING!!). So, here are the pics of the beautiful head unit.
Flash on (dusty as hell since it was just taken out of the box):
No flash (dark shot, a bit blurry cuz this cam sucks at no light shots):
And this is where we are mounting the EQ. It looks sooooooo good!
Well since we are kind of in limbo waiting for the box and rest of the sound dampening materials to arrive, we hooked the deck up to the 4ch amp and the Arc-6000's (which by the way sound AMAZING!!). So, here are the pics of the beautiful head unit.
Flash on (dusty as hell since it was just taken out of the box):
No flash (dark shot, a bit blurry cuz this cam sucks at no light shots):
And this is where we are mounting the EQ. It looks sooooooo good!
03-16-2008, 02:30 AM
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03-16-2008, 12:53 PM
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One thing that I've wondered is why would one invest 2000+ watts into subwoofer sound and not the same into the cab speakers and perhaps at least half of that for subs. Sorry if I sound a bit undereducated about this, but it is something I've always wondered if someone could explain why.
03-16-2008, 04:30 PM
#118
nah that sounds like some bs. in reality a sub doesnt "need" much wattage but like james mentioned they would be very quite without it. One thing wattage effects on a speaker is how much it moves. That normally changes not only on what type of speaker it is but what its made out of. So your tweeter made of silk doesnt really need much to move. Where as your heavy ass sub made of plastic and all kinds of crap takes a bit. One of the main reasons why DD works as a sub is because of how they construct their subs. If you look at the design of a dd vs say kicker you will understand why dd is what it is.
in that case covering holes in the rear deck wouldnt matter sound wise.
What do you mean "mexican style".
Probably most of the time I actually drive it I'll drop the rear seats down. Only exception is if we decide to use that car on a group outing, but even so the recommended weight rating on the side of the drivers side minus the amount of weight for parts we are putting in and minus me driving, we are limited to 600 lbs more. So, if I decide to grab some friends, they have to be light.
But realistically, 90% of the time it will just be front seat passengers and we'll have the back seat down.
Probably most of the time I actually drive it I'll drop the rear seats down. Only exception is if we decide to use that car on a group outing, but even so the recommended weight rating on the side of the drivers side minus the amount of weight for parts we are putting in and minus me driving, we are limited to 600 lbs more. So, if I decide to grab some friends, they have to be light.
But realistically, 90% of the time it will just be front seat passengers and we'll have the back seat down.
Last edited by EmperorJJ1; 03-16-2008 at 04:30 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
03-16-2008, 05:45 PM
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Yup I gotcha there, but we still want to keep the trunk as close to a second "semi-sealed" box as we can, using the seats as the port. That way in the 10% days I have the seat up, it still is just as effective without having rattles and crap coming from the rear speaker deck. Also we want to keep the Arc coaxials back there filling the rear area with good mid-high sound as much as possible so the subs don't drown out the music. It really isn't that much effort to cover it at this point, we have already applied Damplifier to reduce the vibrations and sprayed quite a bit of spectrum up there to make it more solid, so all thats left is the rattles and sound filtering by means of Overkill. Its cake.
But still, what is "Mexican style"?
But still, what is "Mexican style"?
03-17-2008, 12:56 AM
#122
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nah that sounds like some bs. in reality a sub doesnt "need" much wattage but like james mentioned they would be very quite without it. One thing wattage effects on a speaker is how much it moves. That normally changes not only on what type of speaker it is but what its made out of. So your tweeter made of silk doesnt really need much to move. Where as your heavy ass sub made of plastic and all kinds of crap takes a bit. One of the main reasons why DD works as a sub is because of how they construct their subs. If you look at the design of a dd vs say kicker you will understand why dd is what it is.
in that case covering holes in the rear deck wouldnt matter sound wise.
in that case covering holes in the rear deck wouldnt matter sound wise.
03-17-2008, 08:49 AM
#123
lol First off i dont speak crazy high of my system because its not complete and honestly i dont have much time to work on it. The only thing i state highly of is my spl record which was done at a USACI event using their term lab meter (i actually have hit a 147.6 before but heres the only web result i can find http://caraudioevents.com/Event%20Re...nt_2_23_08.htm 146.9). Secondly the idea of a sub needing a certain amount of wattage to work properly at a certain freq is retarted. Think about it something like one of the MTX lowest line 8s (4500) is rated to go down to 39hz (and i bet in the right box it could go lower) off of 100w then what you said about a sub requiring double the power to reproduce low freqs doesnt make sense. and lastly i work at a car audio dealer full time as an installer and salesperson among other things so depending on what you consider a professional i wouldnt throw my advice out the window just because of a title i half gave myself (im not clever enough to come up with the whole thing myself)
03-18-2008, 02:34 AM
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Tiny little update
We are kind of hung up waiting for parts. The faceplate/mounting bracket for the head unit should be here Wednesday. The Damplifier for my doors should be here Wednesday as well (maybe even tomorrow, Tuesday, if I'm really lucky). If all that arrives when we hope, then Wednesday my car will be drivable again minus the subs. Unfortunately the box was delayed a bit, they are now saying it should ship out this weekend. I'm not too concerned because this IS a coveted aerospace material Zero Gravity box, designed specifically for SQ in a collaboration involving a Digital Designs engineer.
So, the updates for today. Brannan got the baffles and speaker brackets to mount the Arc KS-6026's, so he took care of that and then got all my paneling and seats back in. These were a royal PITA to reinstall. We didn't think it would be such a hassle, but just getting the rear quarter panels & 'C' pillars on took approximately 1 hour each side. Saturday we spent time positioning the tweeters, so today Brannan mounted the tweeters to the door:
And he also got the 4ch amp mounted to the seat. We decided on mounting it to the 60% seat (of the 60/40 split seat) as most of the time I will have the seats down, but if we ever have a passenger it is usually one and they sit on the passenger side (the 40% side), so by mounting it on the 60% side we can keep the seat down and maximize the airflow:
And I think that is it for today...
Yup, thats it.
We are kind of hung up waiting for parts. The faceplate/mounting bracket for the head unit should be here Wednesday. The Damplifier for my doors should be here Wednesday as well (maybe even tomorrow, Tuesday, if I'm really lucky). If all that arrives when we hope, then Wednesday my car will be drivable again minus the subs. Unfortunately the box was delayed a bit, they are now saying it should ship out this weekend. I'm not too concerned because this IS a coveted aerospace material Zero Gravity box, designed specifically for SQ in a collaboration involving a Digital Designs engineer.
So, the updates for today. Brannan got the baffles and speaker brackets to mount the Arc KS-6026's, so he took care of that and then got all my paneling and seats back in. These were a royal PITA to reinstall. We didn't think it would be such a hassle, but just getting the rear quarter panels & 'C' pillars on took approximately 1 hour each side. Saturday we spent time positioning the tweeters, so today Brannan mounted the tweeters to the door:
And he also got the 4ch amp mounted to the seat. We decided on mounting it to the 60% seat (of the 60/40 split seat) as most of the time I will have the seats down, but if we ever have a passenger it is usually one and they sit on the passenger side (the 40% side), so by mounting it on the 60% side we can keep the seat down and maximize the airflow:
And I think that is it for today...
Yup, thats it.