SPAL Universal Power Windows - 2 x 25A power source
09-09-2011, 03:44 PM
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SPAL Universal Power Windows - 2 x 25A power source
Hi all,
do you guys know of a power source I can tap into with 2 lines, each with a 25A fuse on them? The SPAL universal kit needs 2 lines with the fuses on them. As of right now, I got the wiring all prepped to go, just need to know where I can tap into and grab power from for each 25A fused line. As well, if you can give a quick rundown on how to tap into it, that would be awesome! Don't want to electrocute myself or screw up the wiring and have a defective car, lol.
do you guys know of a power source I can tap into with 2 lines, each with a 25A fuse on them? The SPAL universal kit needs 2 lines with the fuses on them. As of right now, I got the wiring all prepped to go, just need to know where I can tap into and grab power from for each 25A fused line. As well, if you can give a quick rundown on how to tap into it, that would be awesome! Don't want to electrocute myself or screw up the wiring and have a defective car, lol.
09-09-2011, 05:38 PM
#2
probably no where. for 50a your probably going to want to run your own wire. put a 50a fuse near the battery or jumper post if you getting it there (battery is preferred) then split to the 2 25a wherever you need them to go. lastly if you need it to be switched power or whatever you would have to do a relay
09-10-2011, 03:37 PM
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Hey,
Thanks, thats kind of what I was expecting to hear. Im going to pick up a 50A fuse and run my own line from the jumper post in the front, or the back battery if it proves not too difficult (I know it isn't, I already ran power lock cables through the doors and under the carpet). Thanks for confirming this for me
Thanks, thats kind of what I was expecting to hear. Im going to pick up a 50A fuse and run my own line from the jumper post in the front, or the back battery if it proves not too difficult (I know it isn't, I already ran power lock cables through the doors and under the carpet). Thanks for confirming this for me
09-11-2011, 12:07 AM
#5
First of all, you dont want to run run a 50amp line through the car like that, youd need to use 10 gauge wire, and even then 50amps is more than I like to see added on and run inside the car.
And theres no need to do that anyway, you can very easily get the power you want from the fuseblock/bcm in the centerconsole. Youll just need two add-a-fuse's and the 25amp ATM style fuses, and 16ga wire. get the power from the the Power Wondow slot for one window and the Sunroof slot for the other. also wiring them from those sources instead of from the battery or front fuse block youll have them powered up the exact same way as factory, meaning no no need to run extra circuits for a relay.
And theres no need to do that anyway, you can very easily get the power you want from the fuseblock/bcm in the centerconsole. Youll just need two add-a-fuse's and the 25amp ATM style fuses, and 16ga wire. get the power from the the Power Wondow slot for one window and the Sunroof slot for the other. also wiring them from those sources instead of from the battery or front fuse block youll have them powered up the exact same way as factory, meaning no no need to run extra circuits for a relay.
09-11-2011, 12:41 AM
#7
more then you would like to see added on in the car?
id check to see if theres even power for the window fuse and i know the sunroof fuse is only 15a. so assuming you dont have a sunroof your already going 10a over. betta not roll down the window real quick. do it in short bursts make it the new cool thing
id check to see if theres even power for the window fuse and i know the sunroof fuse is only 15a. so assuming you dont have a sunroof your already going 10a over. betta not roll down the window real quick. do it in short bursts make it the new cool thing
09-11-2011, 07:53 PM
#8
more then you would like to see added on in the car?
id check to see if theres even power for the window fuse and i know the sunroof fuse is only 15a. so assuming you dont have a sunroof your already going 10a over. betta not roll down the window real quick. do it in short bursts make it the new cool thing
id check to see if theres even power for the window fuse and i know the sunroof fuse is only 15a. so assuming you dont have a sunroof your already going 10a over. betta not roll down the window real quick. do it in short bursts make it the new cool thing
The sunroof fuse and the power window fuse both get their power from the same electrical bus in the BCM. There is more than sufficient power available from the BCM to power these aftermarket window motors.
Yes the sunroof fuse when equipped is only a 15amp, but that has nothing to do with the available amperage at the BCM. Its a 15amp fuse because thats all the sunroof needs to run/protect its circuit.
Theres zero reason to run a circuit through the firewall or from the battery. If it were my car, or a customers car I would power the windows from the BCM as intended by GM. Like I said, get some add-a-fuses that will support 25amps, run yourself somepower circuits from those with a high quality TXL type 14 or 16gauge wire and youll be fine. Plus you wont need a relay or any of the extra wiring that goes with it.
Last edited by Maven; 09-11-2011 at 08:07 PM.
09-11-2011, 11:10 PM
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No, more than I would want added on as a 50amp wire through the dash or from the back of car especially when there is already place to get the power from.
The sunroof fuse and the power window fuse both get their power from the same electrical bus in the BCM. There is more than sufficient power available from the BCM to power these aftermarket window motors.
Yes the sunroof fuse when equipped is only a 15amp, but that has nothing to do with the available amperage at the BCM. Its a 15amp fuse because thats all the sunroof needs to run/protect its circuit.
Theres zero reason to run a circuit through the firewall or from the battery. If it were my car, or a customers car I would power the windows from the BCM as intended by GM. Like I said, get some add-a-fuses that will support 25amps, run yourself somepower circuits from those with a high quality TXL type 14 or 16gauge wire and youll be fine. Plus you wont need a relay or any of the extra wiring that goes with it.
The sunroof fuse and the power window fuse both get their power from the same electrical bus in the BCM. There is more than sufficient power available from the BCM to power these aftermarket window motors.
Yes the sunroof fuse when equipped is only a 15amp, but that has nothing to do with the available amperage at the BCM. Its a 15amp fuse because thats all the sunroof needs to run/protect its circuit.
Theres zero reason to run a circuit through the firewall or from the battery. If it were my car, or a customers car I would power the windows from the BCM as intended by GM. Like I said, get some add-a-fuses that will support 25amps, run yourself somepower circuits from those with a high quality TXL type 14 or 16gauge wire and youll be fine. Plus you wont need a relay or any of the extra wiring that goes with it.
09-11-2011, 11:17 PM
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more then you would like to see added on in the car?
id check to see if theres even power for the window fuse and i know the sunroof fuse is only 15a. so assuming you dont have a sunroof your already going 10a over. betta not roll down the window real quick. do it in short bursts make it the new cool thing
id check to see if theres even power for the window fuse and i know the sunroof fuse is only 15a. so assuming you dont have a sunroof your already going 10a over. betta not roll down the window real quick. do it in short bursts make it the new cool thing
09-12-2011, 08:57 PM
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more then you would like to see added on in the car?
id check to see if theres even power for the window fuse and i know the sunroof fuse is only 15a. so assuming you dont have a sunroof your already going 10a over. betta not roll down the window real quick. do it in short bursts make it the new cool thing
id check to see if theres even power for the window fuse and i know the sunroof fuse is only 15a. so assuming you dont have a sunroof your already going 10a over. betta not roll down the window real quick. do it in short bursts make it the new cool thing
09-13-2011, 04:19 AM
#13
ive personally never done or tried to do this before so the idea of hey some cars came with power windows so shouldn't be hard to replicate using power from the bcm sounds like a good idea from a noob poitn of view but thinking about it a little more...
problem is that 50a figure. that's alot... more then id be comfortable with just piggybacking off a fuse slot or even assuming would be readily available at the bcm regardless. considering its necessary for the car to keep driving and it is or at least was a 600-700 part i wouldn't want to do anything id remotely think could cause it to **** up.
problem is that 50a figure. that's alot... more then id be comfortable with just piggybacking off a fuse slot or even assuming would be readily available at the bcm regardless. considering its necessary for the car to keep driving and it is or at least was a 600-700 part i wouldn't want to do anything id remotely think could cause it to **** up.
09-13-2011, 10:25 AM
#14
Yea I agree JJ, lets pull some current off the main power supply for our cars computer rather than running an isolated power source straight from the battery. I didn't know 50 amps was too much to run (8 gauge wire). Guess my 250 amp fused 1/0 gauge is wayyyyyy too much current to be running through a car.....guess I should go remove it tomorrow...
09-13-2011, 03:03 PM
#16
You would need almost a 6gauge wire to safely carry 50amps through the car based on recommend voltage ratings 2/0 can easily carry 200-250amps safely. To run them separately for 25amp per line you would want to use about 10 guage.
Last edited by JshLnsctt; 09-13-2011 at 03:09 PM.
09-13-2011, 03:34 PM
#17
totally agree but your missing the point. he didn't say what size wire should be ran he just said that it should be vs getting it at the bcm. and another point the main power wire for the car is only 4g and it doesn't come close to the bcm at all. im not sure how the bcm gets power but if theres a single big wire going to it its less then 4g.
so if the power windows hes adding needs a min of 6g to run properly how thick of a wire needs to go to the bcm to handle the added 50a? from all that ive done in my car i haven't seen a big single run of wire to the bcm... the only thing that might possible be "power" for the bcm vs individual wires is the 6g at best wire from the battery (with a 50a fuse btw) Im almost 100% positive that the bcm doesn't have 4g+ wire going to it and if 50a really needs 6g like you said then there is absolutely no way that piggybacking off the bcm makes any sense when it has at best a 6g power wire
so if the power windows hes adding needs a min of 6g to run properly how thick of a wire needs to go to the bcm to handle the added 50a? from all that ive done in my car i haven't seen a big single run of wire to the bcm... the only thing that might possible be "power" for the bcm vs individual wires is the 6g at best wire from the battery (with a 50a fuse btw) Im almost 100% positive that the bcm doesn't have 4g+ wire going to it and if 50a really needs 6g like you said then there is absolutely no way that piggybacking off the bcm makes any sense when it has at best a 6g power wire
09-13-2011, 04:53 PM
#18
totally agree but your missing the point. he didn't say what size wire should be ran he just said that it should be vs getting it at the bcm. and another point the main power wire for the car is only 4g and it doesn't come close to the bcm at all. im not sure how the bcm gets power but if theres a single big wire going to it its less then 4g.
so if the power windows hes adding needs a min of 6g to run properly how thick of a wire needs to go to the bcm to handle the added 50a? from all that ive done in my car i haven't seen a big single run of wire to the bcm... the only thing that might possible be "power" for the bcm vs individual wires is the 6g at best wire from the battery (with a 50a fuse btw) Im almost 100% positive that the bcm doesn't have 4g+ wire going to it and if 50a really needs 6g like you said then there is absolutely no way that piggybacking off the bcm makes any sense when it has at best a 6g power wire
so if the power windows hes adding needs a min of 6g to run properly how thick of a wire needs to go to the bcm to handle the added 50a? from all that ive done in my car i haven't seen a big single run of wire to the bcm... the only thing that might possible be "power" for the bcm vs individual wires is the 6g at best wire from the battery (with a 50a fuse btw) Im almost 100% positive that the bcm doesn't have 4g+ wire going to it and if 50a really needs 6g like you said then there is absolutely no way that piggybacking off the bcm makes any sense when it has at best a 6g power wire
09-13-2011, 08:32 PM
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AWG American Wire Gauge
AWG states that true 8 gauge is sufficient to safely carry 50 amps...don't know where you figured the 6 gauge from...
but yes, I don't recommend running cheap (cheap as in low strand count resulting in higher resistance, small cross section, etc) 8 gauge wire to aftermarket window motors which, for the most part, are cheaply made and have a high rate of failure compared to OEM window regulators/motors....
My main issue is pulling current from what is essentially the "brain" of the car with aftermarket parts....NOT OEM parts..the argument right now is essentially risk vs reward....As a beginner instaler, which OP seems to be, is it riskier to run an isolated fused circuit through the car? Or is it riskier to pull current from the BCM's power supply....? Well, chances are they will both work...but when you weigh in risk vs reward, what are you truly gaining from pulling power off the BCM? Worst case scenario if something odd happens, you're out of a 600-700 part like JJ said, and risk a potential 65 mph car shutdown (possibly lethal). Thats WORST case scenario.....on the other hand, running wire from the battery fused within 18 inches of the battery terminal would result in up to 18 inches of burned insulation/wire and a blown fuse....
Yes, it's possible to do both without an issue, but it's like masturbating in public, just because you can, doesn't mean you should. My 2 cents.
AWG states that true 8 gauge is sufficient to safely carry 50 amps...don't know where you figured the 6 gauge from...
but yes, I don't recommend running cheap (cheap as in low strand count resulting in higher resistance, small cross section, etc) 8 gauge wire to aftermarket window motors which, for the most part, are cheaply made and have a high rate of failure compared to OEM window regulators/motors....
My main issue is pulling current from what is essentially the "brain" of the car with aftermarket parts....NOT OEM parts..the argument right now is essentially risk vs reward....As a beginner instaler, which OP seems to be, is it riskier to run an isolated fused circuit through the car? Or is it riskier to pull current from the BCM's power supply....? Well, chances are they will both work...but when you weigh in risk vs reward, what are you truly gaining from pulling power off the BCM? Worst case scenario if something odd happens, you're out of a 600-700 part like JJ said, and risk a potential 65 mph car shutdown (possibly lethal). Thats WORST case scenario.....on the other hand, running wire from the battery fused within 18 inches of the battery terminal would result in up to 18 inches of burned insulation/wire and a blown fuse....
Yes, it's possible to do both without an issue, but it's like masturbating in public, just because you can, doesn't mean you should. My 2 cents.
Last edited by c4w18; 09-13-2011 at 08:47 PM.
09-13-2011, 10:25 PM
#20
The circuits I recommend using are fed using a 5mm2 (10ga) wire. GM's XLPE style wire thats used in our cars can carry 50amps over 20ft safely. Obviouslt theres nowhere near 20ft of wire between the center console and the underhood fuseblock so no worries there,in shorther runs GM 5mm2 wire is rated for 60amps......
Also remember that fuses arent rated for what the load uses, they are usually rated at LEAST 125% more, sometimes even 150%. At 150% that would mean a circuit with a 15amp fuse never even uses over 10.
Now adding up all the fuses run to a circuit isnt really a good way to tell what is actually running through the wires but just for the sake of this discussion there is over 120amps worth of fused circuits feeding the BCM. cant see power windows drawing more power than the BCm can handle. **** they would have to draw almost as much as the generator can even produce.
Just put a battery in the glovebox.
Also remember that fuses arent rated for what the load uses, they are usually rated at LEAST 125% more, sometimes even 150%. At 150% that would mean a circuit with a 15amp fuse never even uses over 10.
Now adding up all the fuses run to a circuit isnt really a good way to tell what is actually running through the wires but just for the sake of this discussion there is over 120amps worth of fused circuits feeding the BCM. cant see power windows drawing more power than the BCm can handle. **** they would have to draw almost as much as the generator can even produce.
Just put a battery in the glovebox.
09-13-2011, 11:07 PM
#21
AWG American Wire Gauge
AWG states that true 8 gauge is sufficient to safely carry 50 amps...don't know where you figured the 6 gauge from...
but yes, I don't recommend running cheap (cheap as in low strand count resulting in higher resistance, small cross section, etc) 8 gauge wire to aftermarket window motors which, for the most part, are cheaply made and have a high rate of failure compared to OEM window regulators/motors....
My main issue is pulling current from what is essentially the "brain" of the car with aftermarket parts....NOT OEM parts..the argument right now is essentially risk vs reward....As a beginner instaler, which OP seems to be, is it riskier to run an isolated fused circuit through the car? Or is it riskier to pull current from the BCM's power supply....? Well, chances are they will both work...but when you weigh in risk vs reward, what are you truly gaining from pulling power off the BCM? Worst case scenario if something odd happens, you're out of a 600-700 part like JJ said, and risk a potential 65 mph car shutdown (possibly lethal). Thats WORST case scenario.....on the other hand, running wire from the battery fused within 18 inches of the battery terminal would result in up to 18 inches of burned insulation/wire and a blown fuse....
Yes, it's possible to do both without an issue, but it's like masturbating in public, just because you can, doesn't mean you should. My 2 cents.
AWG states that true 8 gauge is sufficient to safely carry 50 amps...don't know where you figured the 6 gauge from...
but yes, I don't recommend running cheap (cheap as in low strand count resulting in higher resistance, small cross section, etc) 8 gauge wire to aftermarket window motors which, for the most part, are cheaply made and have a high rate of failure compared to OEM window regulators/motors....
My main issue is pulling current from what is essentially the "brain" of the car with aftermarket parts....NOT OEM parts..the argument right now is essentially risk vs reward....As a beginner instaler, which OP seems to be, is it riskier to run an isolated fused circuit through the car? Or is it riskier to pull current from the BCM's power supply....? Well, chances are they will both work...but when you weigh in risk vs reward, what are you truly gaining from pulling power off the BCM? Worst case scenario if something odd happens, you're out of a 600-700 part like JJ said, and risk a potential 65 mph car shutdown (possibly lethal). Thats WORST case scenario.....on the other hand, running wire from the battery fused within 18 inches of the battery terminal would result in up to 18 inches of burned insulation/wire and a blown fuse....
Yes, it's possible to do both without an issue, but it's like masturbating in public, just because you can, doesn't mean you should. My 2 cents.
09-14-2011, 11:34 PM
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The circuits I recommend using are fed using a 5mm2 (10ga) wire. GM's XLPE style wire thats used in our cars can carry 50amps over 20ft safely. Obviouslt theres nowhere near 20ft of wire between the center console and the underhood fuseblock so no worries there,in shorther runs GM 5mm2 wire is rated for 60amps......
Also remember that fuses arent rated for what the load uses, they are usually rated at LEAST 125% more, sometimes even 150%. At 150% that would mean a circuit with a 15amp fuse never even uses over 10.
Now adding up all the fuses run to a circuit isnt really a good way to tell what is actually running through the wires but just for the sake of this discussion there is over 120amps worth of fused circuits feeding the BCM. cant see power windows drawing more power than the BCm can handle. **** they would have to draw almost as much as the generator can even produce.
Just put a battery in the glovebox.
Also remember that fuses arent rated for what the load uses, they are usually rated at LEAST 125% more, sometimes even 150%. At 150% that would mean a circuit with a 15amp fuse never even uses over 10.
Now adding up all the fuses run to a circuit isnt really a good way to tell what is actually running through the wires but just for the sake of this discussion there is over 120amps worth of fused circuits feeding the BCM. cant see power windows drawing more power than the BCm can handle. **** they would have to draw almost as much as the generator can even produce.
Just put a battery in the glovebox.
09-15-2011, 05:40 PM
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Reading over the posts, I think running the direct line makes the most sense here, and do 2 lines each for 25A (since i'd be connecting it to the individual 25A lines anyway). Would double fusing it be any issue? there is already a fuse included with the line that I have installed at the end of it. If its not an issue I want to have a 2nd one as close to the battery as possible to minimize the amount of wire that could get burnt and blow the first fuse with.
09-15-2011, 11:00 PM
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Reading over the posts, I think running the direct line makes the most sense here, and do 2 lines each for 25A (since i'd be connecting it to the individual 25A lines anyway). Would double fusing it be any issue? there is already a fuse included with the line that I have installed at the end of it. If its not an issue I want to have a 2nd one as close to the battery as possible to minimize the amount of wire that could get burnt and blow the first fuse with.
09-16-2011, 10:46 AM
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I thought so, I couldn't think of any reason it would be an issue. Thanks for confirming that. Looks like I will probably be running my own line over the weekend for these windows.