cobalt_driver

okay, i'm buying 2 kicker L5's. They have i believe 1200 watts a piece and 600 rms a piece. I'm hooking them up to 2 pheonix gold 600 watt class d amps. Its alot of power. I'm not sure what size capacitor i should get. 3 ferad? idk. all i know is that after i get it installed, i won't have enough money to swap out the altnernator. i was told if u get a good enough capacitor u shouldn't need to swap out ur alternator. n i got an eclipse cd 3000 head-unit. n i'm going to buy an optima battery. also...ne one know what gauge wire i should get? plz help me out.

JRANGER

A 3 Farad would be good and you will want to use 4 guage wire...

cobalt_driver

just 4 gauge? i was hearing bigger?

cobi

4 gauge cuz you dont have to run it very long since the battery is in the trunk and youll really need an alternator sometime. A capacitor is like a bandaid for the problem trust me I went through the process with my chrysler and ended up with a 225+ amp alternator on it in the end.

EmperorJJ1

iTrader: (5)

what brand did you go with? im scoping out brands for a dual alt idea i got

cobi

I believe it was an AC Delco Universal 200 amp and they bumped it up a little at the shop where I got it done.

iamslow

cobalt_driver> I would recommend you not to listen to that person for anymore audio and/or power advice. I would stick to just using the caps that are built into the amps. Caps don't make current they only store it.

cobi

Yes he is very correct in the sense that caps dont make current they store it and when it is not replenished at a high enough rate the cap will be depleted and you will be right back to where you were without the cap. So when your system hits several low frequency, power draining notes youll be back to stressing out your electrical system.

Your amplifiers will be drawing at least 100 amps on big hits and possibly more. Im not sure on the cobalts alt rating but I imagine its not over 115-130 amps thats normal with 4-cylinders. Again not sure but the operating system of the car uses ~60 amps depending on what accesories are running. So youve got 130 to be generous - 60= 70 amps and amplifiers that need 100 amps+. hmmmmm..... you do the math. Big enough capacitors will work and depending on the actual loads may be ok for your application but like I said they are not the best fix to the problem. Personally id get the cap until you can afford the alternator, thats what I did.

And iamslow the caps in the amp are there for its protection not the cars electrical system. Thanks for the sidebust though......Ass

DoubleLP

Get an alternator, and a gel cell battery like an Optima. Makes a WORLD of difference. The caps are "ok", but as was said they are only a temporary fix.

ted5986

as far as wire size, it depends on where the amps are located. if it were me or a customer of mine, i would use 1/0 and split it at a dist. block to 2 4 gauge to the amps. use the 1/0 for the ground also.

now,...the capacitor...anything below 3 farad is basically useless. if you are using a 3 farad cap and the stock alt, then as some of these guys said, its going to work well until the really heavy and low-freq notes. however, if you plan on upping the output of your alt or adding a second alt, it will still be a necessary piece.

one more thing, i almost forgot, when you run your ground. Make sure it is no longer than your power wire. you want at the most 2 feet. make sure there is no paint, and no rust. if its going in the spare tire tub, use a bolt and nut, with washers not just a tech screw.

anything i missed..... well, i think thats it.

EmperorJJ1

iTrader: (5)

ok caps arent made to help a electrical system with problems so if you get severe dimming they wont help much because they arent made for that...
and about the whole thing on amprage the amps take to run it will depend on the amps themselves... how efficient they are plays a big roll in how much power it takes to make power.

oh hey ted got any pics of your glass setup? just wondering bc i love seeing more audio installs in cobalts.

btw the stock alt is 115 on ss/sc so on a ls i would assume 95-100a and usually its standard to have 20% extra power from the alt so on a 100a alt your looking at 20 amps for the system. Like others have said that wont be enough for 1200w rms but all those numbers are "peak" rms. meaning you can have a 1200w system but with volume and gain setup you would oly be using a fraction until you get a new alt. But i will recommend a drycell battery and see how the dimming is. If its just decent and not bad add on a cap and you should be solved. If its insane then you will need a new alt. Period batterys themselves just store energy same as a cap so you can either do what i did and fry you alt very quickly or upgrade now and be in the clear

iamslow

I suggest you go read some books on how power supplies for hi current amplifiers are designed and then come back you obviously have a lot to learn by that ridiculous statement. I never said the caps were there to protect cars electrical system. The best way to protect cars electrical system is to shut it off and throw out the amplifier.

Also, factory alternators no matter how they are rated are highly unlikely to put out that much current. A typical car will sit anywhere from 800 rpm to 3k rpm on your regular day so alternator give out less current since it's based on engine speed. Max current is usually at max engine speed. Most factory alternator are giving out 50 - 65 amps normally not to mention all the other items in a car (engine, lights, accessories) that also need some juice as well.


name calling how mature

edit: here's a link that helps explain the concept of power supply since you've been misinformed http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/powersup.htm
Even though this is an ac to dc power supply the ac to dc conversion is done by your alternator the dc unfortunately varies not only from engine speed but the other items asking for current.

This is a very excellent site though http://www.bcae1.com

cobi

So then how does your advice help the OP in any way at all? Hes got a stereo system that draws large amounts of current and he wants to put as little stress on his electrical system as he can. And your advice is just use the caps in the amplifier????? So your advice would saying its ok to use the caps in the amplifier and you need nothing external. Granted im no genius when it comes to electronics but I have been down that road before. And if he wants to do it right hes eventually going to need an alternator. And an external capacitor is going to help the problem.

You make some good points but it doesnt help the OP at all which is what we are here for. And I dont think im too wrong with the hundreds of thousands of other people who have upgraded for large stereo systems by adding/changing alternators and adding capacitors. I suggest you read some books on common sense and then come back.

And as for the name calling, sorry if im not PC enough for you, I call em like I see em.

ted5986

i have pics of the dash piece for the radio, none of the console cause its not quite finished. i this next week it should be done. i also said that a while back, but i have some free time.


pillar pods, i do have a pic.....i will post it up tomorrow...gotta take some fresh pics

EmperorJJ1

iTrader: (5)

cool pm me with the link to the thread im sure you will make

iamslow

There are hundreds of thousands of people that smoke, does that mean it will make you healthy? Your common sense is not always right. Adding an external capacitor is not going to help the situation. Caps don't make current. What do you not understand? The capacitor is going to end up using more current overall since it discharges itself even when its not connected to anything. Factory alternators just aren't designed for connecting all of this to the car. The problem is lack of current and what is possibly needed is an upgraded alternator. Personally, I'd install the system first, then monitor the car's response to it. If the car can't handle it then save up for an alt. A lot of people add lots of power and don't even use it, you'd be surprised. If you're here to help the OP, help the OP not the salesperson.

cobi

Wow, jeez I guess your right, external caps are completely worthless and have no application in the car audio world. My eyes must have been playing tricks on me when I added a 2.4 Farad capacitor to my last system and the lights stopped dimming on low loud hits. Heres your nobel prize you have defied physics itself my friend.

Ok here is a simple example:
You have a hot tub (cars electrical system) and this really fat kid (amplifier) keeps jumping in and splashing all the damn water out. You decide to add a resevoir of hot water (capacitor) linked to the hot tub so that every time the fat kid jumps in the water is replenished and at such a high rate that you dont even get cold (lack of current - lights dimming). Meanwhile, while the fat kid is setting up for his next jump a pump (alternator) replenishes what is taken from the resevoir.

Now every once in a while the fat kid splashes so much out that the resevoir cannot fill it completely before he jumps in again and you get cold (dimming lights again). So, you add a bigger pump and voila. It replenishes the resevoir fast enough that you stay warm no matter how much the fat kid jumps in.

One day you notice a small leak (capacitor discharging itself) in your resevoir that looks like its been there for a while, yet nothing in the system seems wrong. You also notice that the resevoir is very low(discharged capacitor) every time you come out in the morning because of the leak, but once you turn on the pump the resevoir is filled by the time you get your towel and get the cover off the hot tub(Starting car and charging capacitor) So, your happy still and enjoying your hot tub and the leak is so small it makes no difference.

Point: The rate at which the capacitor loses charge when not in use is far far smaller than what it takes to charge it when intially charged.

iamslow

Worthless point, and save your long goofy story about fat kids and pools. I know exactly what a capacitor is. You can venture on the links I provided earlier to learn all about capacitors. The point I was making is that caps loose charge and consume current ALL the time. In the end you will use more current than not having it there. Not to mention the price tag on a reasonable one will be almost half the price of an HO alt that will actually fix the problem (not that there is one yet). First, you need a good supply of power before you start worrying about smoothing things out (what a capacitor does). Your alternator will be doing extra work keeping the capacitor charged when it's not needed. And what happens during a long bass note? The capacitor gets discharged rather quickly and your back with dim lights again.

rick1217

4gauge wire would be plenty since the battery is in the trunk. Theres lots of good explantions on capacitors..... What size of L5's are you running, I have 1 12" L5 and a 1100watt(600watt RMS) Kentwood Class D mono Amp, and it pounds real hard, cant imaging what 2 would sound like, I use to have 2 older 15" rockfords and the bass is about the same except the L5 sounds way more cleaner and takes up less room in the trunk and its alot lighter....

cobi

So when your system hits several low frequency, power draining notes youll be back to stressing out your electrical system. = quote by me

Sorry been there said that already weve already determined that a capacitor is not the best fix. If you see no value in a simple example such as the fat kid and hot tub story, then obviously your confused on how a capacitor can be used.

And as far as consuming current all the time when not being used, we have these things called relays.

Im done with this, your like arguing with a brick wall.

iamslow

No, I'm not confused at all about how capacitors are used. I've used plenty of capacitors in the circuits that I have built. Once again, the links I provided explain how capacitors work and are very easy to read and will not potentially offend someone (in this case fat kids). Not to mention most people are too lazy to read a 2 page long story fat kids and pools.

Great that you're finished because you obviously don't know enough about electronics to be speaking about it. Misinforming people doesn't help anyone.