hatrickstu

iTrader: (1)

Alright a little background info, this is an email my dad sent me because we have talked about CAI for all cars alot lately, especailly my SS/SC. He has decades of drag racing and autocrossing experience, and i would be the luckiest person alive to know half as much about modifying cars as he does. He is quite high up in Napa Auto Parts, and do not take this email the wrong way at all he is just trying to get some very valid points across. i hope this has an influence on future purchases of you all because this is probably one of the most honest things you will read ont his site. it reads:

You may be interested to know and if you care let the Bozos on the website know. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act does give them certain rights to use aftermarket parts. I deal with this everyday, it is part of my job.
The point they are missing is that it they have a pre-mature engine failure and the dealer determines it is from contamination entering through the Intake Tract, the warranty is void! This is because the installed filter ( whoever made it) did not do it's job.
Of course you could not expect GM to warranty damage caused by a part (or system) built by someone else. If you have an engine failure and it is due to contamination, (trust me the dealer will say contamination if there is an aftermarket CAI installed) the only claim you have is with whoever manufactured the CAI.You could also take the route of proving the Dealer wrong in his diagnosis of the cause of failure. That would be very entertaining... ASE Certified Technician's opinion vs.Young Joe Blow off the street armed with the knowledge obtained from an anonymous "expert" on an enthusiast website. Are you a gambling man? My bet is on the diagnosis of the ASE Certified Technician.
Another point the young experts are missing completely is that any modification made to prepare the vehicle for competition will automatically void all warranties.
These factors are true whether you drive a Cobalt or a vehicle powered by a Cummins, Mack, Detroit, Cat, etc.
The point is the Magnuson-Moss act gives you the right to use aftermarket parts and still have your warranty be in effect. It does not give you the right to dictate what GM will pay for.It also does not give you the knowledge to diagnose the cause of a blown or pre-maturely failed engine.
It is entertaining when a lay-person quotes a law to prove his point while at the same time probably squeaking out a C in Civics and a D in auto shop.
If you want to quote me go ahead. I am ASE certified with 33 years in the Automotive Aftermarket ( 10 at the manufacturing level ) and an educational background in Engineering.
Love you son, hope to see you this weekend.

Thats it let me know what you guys think.

Tofu

Good points, just one question. Say I take the car to the dealership because I've thrown a DTC that deals with the PCM as well as the "engine running lean" one. Now say the dealership says that "hey you're DTC says you're engine is running lean, and we've determined that contamination in the intake tract is the source of the problem (for whatever reason)". I may not be ASE certified, but I do have my A/F graph from my dyno run that shows that if anything...the motor is running a bit rich. Could that, in turn, be used as leverage to prove that the CAI is not actually making the engine isn't actually running lean? And would this affect the PCM problem as in the dealership refusing to cover a "PCM malfunction" due to a CAI throwing a "false" code?

Xenozx

valid points, but he talks much like my dad "I have such and such experience, and I am such and such all knowing." Yea thats it. Its still "1" Persons opinion on a situation. Does he work for GM? Is he going to be the dealership you bring your car into? Is he the ASE tech that will look at your car?

No No No...

I agree if dirt is getting into you car (which if done right wont happen) and causes your engine to sieze up thats on you. K&N filers claim to catch more dirt then stock filters no? They also warranty your engine if I remember correctly. The way that warranty works is If their part is faulty or causes your engine malfunction then tehy will repalce it. THey know the chances of their parts causing this are slim to none. Theres also documented proff that K&N filters catch more dirt then standard filters. IF it went to court, I dont think GM would get away with taht smug answer. A matter of fact as soon as you start saying the words "court" "lawyer" "lawsuit" chances are they are going to try to settle it out of court with you anyway. Do they want to pay their lawyers thousands of dollars to defend and possibly lose or do they want to shut up and fix your engine? '

anyway bottom line is unless you got some Ebay intake off of the internet you are fine. Youc an put an intake in your car. Check K&N's site, I think they mention the fact that they cover your engine if its found to be the cause of the problem. Make sure you have it installed professionally and you should not have any trouble. Too tired to keep rambling on, dont even know what im saying nay more.

Malaclypse

iTrader: (1)

The 'PCM Malfunction' code has nothing to do with your CAI.

However, a measured A/F ratio from a dyno sheet at WOT isn't going to prove anything to the dealership. When you're at WOT the PCM completely disreguards anything the O2 sensor reports. Also when at WOT you encounter Power Enrichment and the most advanced spark tables the stock programming has to offer. This will cause you to run rich.

Whenever you're operating the engine normally, the PCM monitors data from the MAF sensor and the O2 sensor to determine how the engine is running. This is through all throttle conditions from idle to moderate throttle acceleration. This is how the PCM determines that there's a problem with the engine/emission equipment.

In short, you have no case against the dealer. Were I the technician dealing with your vehicle I'd suggest that the stock intake be reinstalled prior to any further diagnostics being performed.

Tofu

Ah, I see! Thanks for the explanation.

myoshizawa819

So in other words your dad does not want you to install an aftermaket intake.

What he said is correct. But, I don't think you have to worry about destroying your engine due to contamination with a properly installed aftermarket intake.

Alex47

Just put ur stock intake back on before you go to the dealer to get it looked at. It is just an intake is should not take more then 30 min to swap the stock one back in.

For the people that modded there air box "ur beat"

importkiller

iTrader: (1)

Not so on my base cobalt. I simply removed the entire lower airbox assembly without cutting and then placed a k and n panel filter in....vuala if i have any problems i can just pop the stock assembly back on in 45 minutes and say "it dun brok on me".
As for those skeptics out there on my little "cheap" mod, I now get 32 mpg city and 40 highway mpg. the engine no longer sounds raspy and the throttle response is 2wice as good as it used to be.

Erod

My guess is he isn't in public relations.

Getting a point across doesn't require talking down to people.

GTPsRule

I dont know about the rest of you, but that sounds quite contradictory to me. Maybe its just the way it was worded. Ive never read up on the M-M Act because its nothing I'll ever have to worry about, but the way that sentence was worded leads me to believe I could have an aftermarket part and an effective warranty at the same time. Which would mean I have a right to tell GM they have to honor the warranty and pay for repairs. I still think if youre going to mod a car you should take full responsibility because no OEM should have to pay for the failure of another part you chose to install under your own will and not the will of GM.

And ASE doesnt mean everything. It means they are educated and well schooled in theories of automotive technology. It does not mean a mechanic has common sense or is able to tell the truth, both of which I have found are valuable traits the ASE almost sucks right from you The fact that he called people on a website "bozos" further strengthens my point

dimeo09

no he's right were all bozos, whats an engine...... hows it work....... how do you drive a car......

zinner

We are the bozos that keep NAPA parts in business.

I have actually purchased stuff at NAPA, nice store in general. I perfer it over most of the other option out there (for non OEM parts).

There are definetly some good, knowledgable folks on this board with great insight and input and I am sorry he doesn't recognize that.