Projekt

So ive notice ever since i got my cobalt that i can shift from 3rd 4th and 5th into neutral without the clutch...ive always wondered how thats possible..is it a defect or is it just that the car is at low RPMS???

njg5gt

its called clutchless shifting and is horrible for our syncros

Deathcult

not only your syncs but also bad on your clutch. i noticed that after a while my clutch started slipping...all on my old balt tho. not the SS.


i would suggest never doing that again, unless you plan getting a stage 3 clutch or w.e.

cblt12

just use the clutch, it will save your car

njg5gt

it would take a lot to explain it so here you go

Originally posted on G5Club.net by blackriderg6

I think there needs to be some clarification here. When the car is in neutral and the clutch engaged the lay shaft is being spun by the engine (the shaft connected to the clutch). When the clutch is disengaged and the car in gear the motion of the car is responsible for the rotation of the transmission. When the clutch is disengaged and the car is in neutral the lay shaft is free wheeling because it’s not connected to the input shaft via the collar (the collar is the actual gear selector) or the engine via the clutch. The syncros job is to synchronies the rotation of the input shaft and the lay shaft. For example you put the clutch in at 3000RPM and pull the transmission out of first, the lay shaft is now free wheeling. You go to put it into second the first thing to grab is the syncro which synchronizes the lay shaft to the rotational speed of the input shafts. Your transmission is now synchronized the next step is to match engine speed to transmission speed by way of the accelerator peddle, the closer you match engine RPM to transmission RPM the less friction needed to complete the connection and the smother the transition.

When not using the clutch you’re asking a hell of a lot more of the syncros. When using the clutch you’re synchronizing the rotation of the input shaft to the free wheeling virtually non existent torque rotation of the lay shaft, it’s an easy transition. When not using the clutch it now becomes important to match the RPM of the lay shaft to the input shaft using the engine, however it’s virtually impossible to exactly match both rotational speeds using your right foot. This puts the syncros under a lot more stress, because instead of synchronizing the low torque rotation of the free wheeling lay shaft during normal shifting (using the clutch) the syncros now have to deal with both the high torque rotation from the input shaft and the high torque rotation of the engine.

This is the reason not using the clutch to shift it stupid!!



That being said the lay shaft still rotates when both the clutch is disengaged and car is out of gear for 2 reason. First, the clutch still transfers a small amount of force. Second, the input shaft spins freely inside the gears that connect the input shaft to lay shaft because they ride on ball bearings, these ball bearings transfer a small amount of force from the input shat to the lay shaft when the car is in neutral and in motion.




Oh and starting in second won’t do anything to your trans, but it will roast your clutch. In icy condition I start in second all the time, it cuts down the ratio and reduces the torque hitting the ground this making it easier to get traction. IS this bad on the clutch? Simple answer no, because the amount of friction between the tires and ground during icy condition is greatly reduced thus the amount of friction required to synchronize transmission revs to engine is also lower.

Projekt

I never do it i just wondered why the hell i could do it..also what about grinding gears..well practicing power shitfting i have a tendinsy to miss 3rd or 2nd and get the old grinding gear noise..is this really bad for the car??

njg5gt

haha its not good for the car, but it wont kill your transmissin. id say just take it easy until you get it down perfectly.

Florida 76

wow... your clutchless shitfting, Power shifting and grinding gears you car must really love you...


.

06 pursuit gt

did u powershift at all at the track when u got the 15.46?

g5mike

I would listen to coworkers all the time go on about shifting clutchless(rig) they just end up ******* the clutch, for the next guy.

SSbolt

ya man lol your clutch is there for that reason

Projekt

acctualy i dont do it offten..and im sure everyone has at one point..i tend to take it easy on my car and only use its power when needed...

And yes i was powershifting at the track

Afterwind

Does shifting without the clutch when the car is off make any difference...or is it still bad? Cause I've heard both sides and I've always wondered.

rukkee

iTrader: (3)

Maybe you should change your name to projekttrannyrebuild or projektclutchreplacement

Projekt

I will have to when i turbo my balt in spring anyways :P

L.P.

Maybe the reason your balt ran slow at the track is your abusing it...just a thought.

hypsy

If throwing the shifter around with the car off is bad, then I'm fucked

If the car is off moving the shifter into and out of gears isn't going to hurt anything at all.

supercharged414

when i'm driving, sometimes when i'm coming to a stop i hold down the clutch even though i'm in neutral. i'm not messing anything up, am i? just by holding the clutch down

Moza13-

15.46 isnt really that bad of a time, but yea dont powershift please, youll end up buying a new clutch guarenteed after a few times of doin that

L.P.

For an ss/sc it is..and the trap speed is horrible IMO...whenever I had my balt stock it was trapping 94 in the applachian moutains.

Projekt

Congrats for only reading one part of my sig, if you would have taken time to read top to bottom you would see i am a 2.4. Then if you would even take more time to investigate this you would see i got the record for stock 2.4 time..being 17 years old i didnt have enough money to afford a nice supercharger, so im stuck with what i can afford and thats a 2.4 and i have no shame in it at all...

but yeah..i guess 15.46 is a crappy time for a NA/4Cyl Stock..


+rep monza for the encourgaing words

Novajoe

really it's not good to do that either. you put alot of unneeded strees on your pilot bearing

RooTBeeR

iTrader: (4)

Theres only one vehicle that I've noticed that it doesn't matter if you use the clutch or not, and thats big rigs/semis/trucks/tractors(know what I mean lol) anyway thats only because those trannys arn't syncronized, so once you're rolling you can use the clutch if you want to(but then you have to double clutch) but it's not neccessary with a big diesel engine + trans they tend to have a lot of give/play and won't grind if your rpm's are close enough to where they need to be. Just FYI, whats POWER SHIFTING?

KillerBee

wow when i thought about not useing a clutch to shift i thought hell why do we really need brakes just donw shift there is a reason why its put on the car to use it

Projekt

I think this thread got a little off topic...I DO NOT SHIFT WITHOUT THE CLUTCH....when i was driving i hit 3rd and it poped into neutral without the clutch in and i was wondering "WTF why did my car do that?? is it a defect?? and do other cobalts do it??"

thanks to the people who helped answer this question..