2010 Cobalt SSTC p0236 and Boosting Issues (and P2178, P2188)
12-07-2020, 12:07 PM
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2010 Cobalt SSTC p0236 and Boosting Issues (and P2178, P2188)
Hey all, back again.
** Please scroll past the first three paragraphs (unless you need some history/background info) for my current issue. **
It's been a few years since I've posted on these forums, but I feel I'm constantly scouring to see if anyone is experiencing all that I have. My main issues have always been rough idle, bucking/jerking, and intermittent power loss, etc. I feel like I have changed almost every sensor in this car (obviously not, but I have changed a lot): MAF, MAP, VVT Solenoid, Fuel Rail Sensor, etc. My car had anywhere from 4-8 codes at any given time, with issues very intermittent. I've owned the car for 5 years now, and I've had issues since the second week. Whoever had owned it previously to me had done modifications on it, still to this day I'm not sure the extent of them as I'm not so mechanically inclined. I know for sure a cold air intake and upgraded pipes, and I'm assuming at least something with the exhaust. I've got Injen and Hahn stickers plastered on the underside of my hood. I've taken it to local shops, a performance mod shop, and a Chevy dealership. Also had my grandpa who is a retired mechanic help with some of the quicker, cheaper, 'plug-and-play' things. The car has only 114000km on it, I've put on about 50000km of those. I've had it smoke tested years ago, as some on here suggested that a leak may be the reason for my intermittent power loss and sporadic boosting - nothing showed, but again, that was years ago. Anyways, this whole statement is to get a lay of the land.
My idle, bucking issues seem to be put to rest (I've been here too many times. Seemingly every time I change some sort of sensor, I get a little bit more time out of the car issue free). The car had been operating 'well enough' until about half way through the summer... I have a 5 minute drive from work to home and vice versa, and sometimes I would experience the car turn into a brick and just have no acceleration at all mid-drive. I seldom need to activate any sort of boost on such a short drive, but it was always there as soon as I pumped the pedal if I needed it. Towards the end of July, I would start my car in the morning in my driveway, and it would start up no problem. But then right after, it would chug and idle rough, sputter and die in seconds. Usually a second start, the car would stay running. I would reverse out of the driveway and feather the gas a few times to stabilize the idle, most times the car was okay when I flipped to first. Sometimes when I would flip to first, the car would chug and buck really hard and eventually even out. After a few weeks of this, the car just wouldn't stay running at all. I would start it two, three times and the same thing every time. Each usually stayed running longer than the last, but by mere seconds, if anything. I towed it to a local shop, where over 4 codes were apparent. Much of these I had seen over the years and countless sensor switches. But, the shop had determined my issues to be timing-related based on P0014, P0016, and P0011 codes. $2500 later, I had 2 camshaft position actuators, 2 actuator solenoids, 2 crankshaft seals, timing chain kit, chain cover gasket and a flush done to remove some pieces of nylon in the engine. They were adamant this would fix my issues. I picked the car up, it fired up right away and probably the strongest it had ever (definitely in recent history). Already the next morning, I went to start it up and it had a bit of a cough and spat a light. It got me to work, but when I went to leave work, it started up no problem but had a code. I didn't touch it for the weekend, called the shop and let them know I've got a CEL already and a weak start. I didn't touch the car until I was ready to take it back down to them (2 days later), and when I went to start it, I was experiencing the exact same issues I had before I took it in the first time. It started, but didn't stay running and smelt of gas on start up. I had it towed back there, they rescanned and none of the Cam Position codes were popping, so they justified the work they did. They told me now that it is likely an issue with the MAP sensor or wiring. I indicated that I had replaced the MAP sensor before once, possibly even twice. They couldn't order the MAP sensor directly, but they gave me a link for the part number (12592016) I needed on Amazon, however, they didn't know whether or not it came with wiring.
I scanned the codes myself again at home, and what I was now getting: P0106, P2188, P0101, P2178, P2199. All of these were familiar, except for the last one P2199 - Intake Air Temp. Sensor 1/2 Correlation. I did some looking around on these forums, and with all of the posts and discussions, I've always known about the TMAP sensor but didn't know its location. And didn't know that it can also frequently trip the P0106. All the mechanics go right for the top MAP sensor and make no indication of the second, lower one (12592017). Maybe because it's not called a MAP sensor? Anyways, my grandpa special-ordered this part for me and a harness. **I should also make mention that years ago, the dealership had indicated that this car had GMS1 tune installed. Back initially when I was changing sensors years ago, I didn't know that there were OEM sensors, and then GMS1 sensors. When we replaced the top MAP, we had to order a new plug also because the 12592016 didn't fit. After doing reading online more recently for all of my current issues, I realized the bottom TMAP (12592017) was still a GMS1 sensor. ** So now, he replaced this sensor and plug. I've done enough reading now to know also about the black vs. blue o-rings, and he put some sort of gel over the o-rings as well (I don't remember the name) but it's supposed to do the same thing. The car is starting up with virtually no issues now for the last week, sometimes it still feels a little weak but I've noticed sometimes it will start and the RPD for fuel pressure will read over 10k and then drop to about 3-4k and it feels a little thinner. More often than not it starts up at about 4-5k, these numbers mean nothing to me, just adding incase its pertinent. Initially when I picked the car up, there was still a new CEL for P0236 which I believe is now directly related to the sensor that was installed. But, my RPD consistently displays information now (where as before it almost never did on Boost gauge), and again, my car is starting every time I need it to now.
Which brings me now to my whole point of this forum post: (sorry for the long-winded background, just trying to provide as much information as possible because I truly have tried so much for this car, and the problems really have been very intermittent until recent), my car has no boost in first (and I know it's supposed to be little-to-no boost in first) and I would say maybe about a quarter of the pull in each of the other gears, with it being completely non-existent in 5th. I'm assuming because this P0236 is directly related to boost sensor range/performance that this is my issue, or something that it runs to, but I'm hoping someone can shed some light. This sensor has fixed my driveability issues (so far) and allowed my RPD to now work for the first time consistently, but now seemingly it has all come at a cost. I was able to take the car on the highway for the first time last night since I've replaced this sensor. It feels as if there is a little bit of pull from the turbo, but nowhere near the throw-you-back-in-your-seat we all drive these cars for. Before this sensor, and when the car ran, I had experience intermittent power loss from the turbo, but it worked 100% when I wanted it, and then wouldn't boost at all when it would sometimes cut out mid-drive. When the turbo wasn't working at all, the car barely accelerated. My RPD never displayed reduced engine power, there was just almost no throttle response. I would turn the car off, turn it back on and there was instant, full boost again. Almost seemed like maybe too much, sometimes I would have to quickly shift out of first as it seemed very sporadic. With this sensor now, the drive itself seems tighter, less sporadic (but less powerful - also with the same flutter, chatter sound with every shift), and almost like the turbo has a lag again, which I thought you were supposed to experience.. but my turbo engaged instantly before this switch. Anyways, I took it onto the highway and even in 2nd and 3rd gear, I couldn't get more than 60kPa out of the turbo (~7 PSI). Now, I'm not sure what I was getting before as my gauge never really worked. But it just feels like my turbo is capped now, and it is virtually non-existent. In 5th gear my gauge said it was boosting at 60kPa but there was no pull at all, it was a very slow acceleration from 110kmph to 130kmph, WOT. WOT in 2nd and 3rd gears were an absolute joke.
In conclusion (sorry, thanks for sticking with me) TL;DR: A few mods on the car that I never did myself. 114000kms, many sensors previously switched due to rough idle, weak starts and intermittent power loss issues over the last 5 years. Smoke tested years ago, found nothing. GMS1 tuned before I got it, top MAP sensor switched from GMS1 to OEM 4 years ago. Just got around to doing second MAP (lower MAP, turbo boost sensor) switch from GMS1 to OEM. P0236/turbo issue is a new one for me. Turbo boost sensor has fixed my RPD issue and seemingly my driveability for now, but seemingly created a new one: Turbo feeling capped, feels like a quarter of what it was before switching lower TMAP from GMS1 to OEM (12592017). I did reading on here and I thought I saw that it wasn't absolutely necessary for the GMS1 sensors if you weren't tuning beyond, but I couldn't have the GMS1 (55206797) ordered in at all. And even for the OEM MAP/TMAP (turbocharger boost sensor) I had to have it special ordered in.
You all have always been very helpful, and regardless of whether or not your suggestions have fixed my issues, they have always at least given me starting points and knowledge to be able to talk to mechanics and the like, to at least point them in some sort of direction to hopefully eventually get everything rectified.
Thank you all again, so much.
** Please scroll past the first three paragraphs (unless you need some history/background info) for my current issue. **
It's been a few years since I've posted on these forums, but I feel I'm constantly scouring to see if anyone is experiencing all that I have. My main issues have always been rough idle, bucking/jerking, and intermittent power loss, etc. I feel like I have changed almost every sensor in this car (obviously not, but I have changed a lot): MAF, MAP, VVT Solenoid, Fuel Rail Sensor, etc. My car had anywhere from 4-8 codes at any given time, with issues very intermittent. I've owned the car for 5 years now, and I've had issues since the second week. Whoever had owned it previously to me had done modifications on it, still to this day I'm not sure the extent of them as I'm not so mechanically inclined. I know for sure a cold air intake and upgraded pipes, and I'm assuming at least something with the exhaust. I've got Injen and Hahn stickers plastered on the underside of my hood. I've taken it to local shops, a performance mod shop, and a Chevy dealership. Also had my grandpa who is a retired mechanic help with some of the quicker, cheaper, 'plug-and-play' things. The car has only 114000km on it, I've put on about 50000km of those. I've had it smoke tested years ago, as some on here suggested that a leak may be the reason for my intermittent power loss and sporadic boosting - nothing showed, but again, that was years ago. Anyways, this whole statement is to get a lay of the land.
My idle, bucking issues seem to be put to rest (I've been here too many times. Seemingly every time I change some sort of sensor, I get a little bit more time out of the car issue free). The car had been operating 'well enough' until about half way through the summer... I have a 5 minute drive from work to home and vice versa, and sometimes I would experience the car turn into a brick and just have no acceleration at all mid-drive. I seldom need to activate any sort of boost on such a short drive, but it was always there as soon as I pumped the pedal if I needed it. Towards the end of July, I would start my car in the morning in my driveway, and it would start up no problem. But then right after, it would chug and idle rough, sputter and die in seconds. Usually a second start, the car would stay running. I would reverse out of the driveway and feather the gas a few times to stabilize the idle, most times the car was okay when I flipped to first. Sometimes when I would flip to first, the car would chug and buck really hard and eventually even out. After a few weeks of this, the car just wouldn't stay running at all. I would start it two, three times and the same thing every time. Each usually stayed running longer than the last, but by mere seconds, if anything. I towed it to a local shop, where over 4 codes were apparent. Much of these I had seen over the years and countless sensor switches. But, the shop had determined my issues to be timing-related based on P0014, P0016, and P0011 codes. $2500 later, I had 2 camshaft position actuators, 2 actuator solenoids, 2 crankshaft seals, timing chain kit, chain cover gasket and a flush done to remove some pieces of nylon in the engine. They were adamant this would fix my issues. I picked the car up, it fired up right away and probably the strongest it had ever (definitely in recent history). Already the next morning, I went to start it up and it had a bit of a cough and spat a light. It got me to work, but when I went to leave work, it started up no problem but had a code. I didn't touch it for the weekend, called the shop and let them know I've got a CEL already and a weak start. I didn't touch the car until I was ready to take it back down to them (2 days later), and when I went to start it, I was experiencing the exact same issues I had before I took it in the first time. It started, but didn't stay running and smelt of gas on start up. I had it towed back there, they rescanned and none of the Cam Position codes were popping, so they justified the work they did. They told me now that it is likely an issue with the MAP sensor or wiring. I indicated that I had replaced the MAP sensor before once, possibly even twice. They couldn't order the MAP sensor directly, but they gave me a link for the part number (12592016) I needed on Amazon, however, they didn't know whether or not it came with wiring.
I scanned the codes myself again at home, and what I was now getting: P0106, P2188, P0101, P2178, P2199. All of these were familiar, except for the last one P2199 - Intake Air Temp. Sensor 1/2 Correlation. I did some looking around on these forums, and with all of the posts and discussions, I've always known about the TMAP sensor but didn't know its location. And didn't know that it can also frequently trip the P0106. All the mechanics go right for the top MAP sensor and make no indication of the second, lower one (12592017). Maybe because it's not called a MAP sensor? Anyways, my grandpa special-ordered this part for me and a harness. **I should also make mention that years ago, the dealership had indicated that this car had GMS1 tune installed. Back initially when I was changing sensors years ago, I didn't know that there were OEM sensors, and then GMS1 sensors. When we replaced the top MAP, we had to order a new plug also because the 12592016 didn't fit. After doing reading online more recently for all of my current issues, I realized the bottom TMAP (12592017) was still a GMS1 sensor. ** So now, he replaced this sensor and plug. I've done enough reading now to know also about the black vs. blue o-rings, and he put some sort of gel over the o-rings as well (I don't remember the name) but it's supposed to do the same thing. The car is starting up with virtually no issues now for the last week, sometimes it still feels a little weak but I've noticed sometimes it will start and the RPD for fuel pressure will read over 10k and then drop to about 3-4k and it feels a little thinner. More often than not it starts up at about 4-5k, these numbers mean nothing to me, just adding incase its pertinent. Initially when I picked the car up, there was still a new CEL for P0236 which I believe is now directly related to the sensor that was installed. But, my RPD consistently displays information now (where as before it almost never did on Boost gauge), and again, my car is starting every time I need it to now.
Which brings me now to my whole point of this forum post: (sorry for the long-winded background, just trying to provide as much information as possible because I truly have tried so much for this car, and the problems really have been very intermittent until recent), my car has no boost in first (and I know it's supposed to be little-to-no boost in first) and I would say maybe about a quarter of the pull in each of the other gears, with it being completely non-existent in 5th. I'm assuming because this P0236 is directly related to boost sensor range/performance that this is my issue, or something that it runs to, but I'm hoping someone can shed some light. This sensor has fixed my driveability issues (so far) and allowed my RPD to now work for the first time consistently, but now seemingly it has all come at a cost. I was able to take the car on the highway for the first time last night since I've replaced this sensor. It feels as if there is a little bit of pull from the turbo, but nowhere near the throw-you-back-in-your-seat we all drive these cars for. Before this sensor, and when the car ran, I had experience intermittent power loss from the turbo, but it worked 100% when I wanted it, and then wouldn't boost at all when it would sometimes cut out mid-drive. When the turbo wasn't working at all, the car barely accelerated. My RPD never displayed reduced engine power, there was just almost no throttle response. I would turn the car off, turn it back on and there was instant, full boost again. Almost seemed like maybe too much, sometimes I would have to quickly shift out of first as it seemed very sporadic. With this sensor now, the drive itself seems tighter, less sporadic (but less powerful - also with the same flutter, chatter sound with every shift), and almost like the turbo has a lag again, which I thought you were supposed to experience.. but my turbo engaged instantly before this switch. Anyways, I took it onto the highway and even in 2nd and 3rd gear, I couldn't get more than 60kPa out of the turbo (~7 PSI). Now, I'm not sure what I was getting before as my gauge never really worked. But it just feels like my turbo is capped now, and it is virtually non-existent. In 5th gear my gauge said it was boosting at 60kPa but there was no pull at all, it was a very slow acceleration from 110kmph to 130kmph, WOT. WOT in 2nd and 3rd gears were an absolute joke.
In conclusion (sorry, thanks for sticking with me) TL;DR: A few mods on the car that I never did myself. 114000kms, many sensors previously switched due to rough idle, weak starts and intermittent power loss issues over the last 5 years. Smoke tested years ago, found nothing. GMS1 tuned before I got it, top MAP sensor switched from GMS1 to OEM 4 years ago. Just got around to doing second MAP (lower MAP, turbo boost sensor) switch from GMS1 to OEM. P0236/turbo issue is a new one for me. Turbo boost sensor has fixed my RPD issue and seemingly my driveability for now, but seemingly created a new one: Turbo feeling capped, feels like a quarter of what it was before switching lower TMAP from GMS1 to OEM (12592017). I did reading on here and I thought I saw that it wasn't absolutely necessary for the GMS1 sensors if you weren't tuning beyond, but I couldn't have the GMS1 (55206797) ordered in at all. And even for the OEM MAP/TMAP (turbocharger boost sensor) I had to have it special ordered in.
You all have always been very helpful, and regardless of whether or not your suggestions have fixed my issues, they have always at least given me starting points and knowledge to be able to talk to mechanics and the like, to at least point them in some sort of direction to hopefully eventually get everything rectified.
Thank you all again, so much.
12-14-2020, 10:22 PM
#2
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If your car is tuned for gms1 then you can't use the oem2.5 bar sensors unless you tune for them. Is your car tuned for the 3 bar maps?
12-14-2020, 10:50 PM
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I didnt personally tune it for GMS1, but years ago when it was at the local dealer, they said it had the GMS1 tune. Plus, the lower tmap sensor that I just changed was the gms1 sensor. But years ago when I changed the map sensor on top of the manifold, i reverted to the stock oem sensor (i didnt know the car was gms1 tuned and didnt know there were new sensors specific for the tune). I hadnt had any quarter or half-boost issues though until I switched this bottom sensor just weeks ago, even though I had one oem sensor and one gms1. I did, however, intermittently have issues where I would lose boost completely until I restarted the car. And my RPD would almost never show boost information on my gauge, it would always display as "no data available." From what I understood on separate threads on these forums, I didnt think the sensors were necessary? Just that everything was sold as a kit as they wouldn't just sell a tune. Maybe I got that wrong. But either way, i called around to shops and i couldnt get gms1 sensors to directly replace... the oem's were hard enough to find unless through online.
12-15-2020, 05:58 AM
#4
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If you have a GMS1 tune you absolutely have to run the 3 bar maps not the 2.5 bar maps.
The other threads were likely talking about an hptuners tune and if the 3bars were needed, there is an adjustment for the map sensors in hptuners that needs to be adjusted for 3 bars.
I'd do a boost leak test just to confirm you don't have a leak, not a smoke test a proper boost leak. I've had boost leaks that don't show up till the pressure exceeds 15psi (~185kpa absolute, ~82kpa for atmosphere here in Denver)
The other threads were likely talking about an hptuners tune and if the 3bars were needed, there is an adjustment for the map sensors in hptuners that needs to be adjusted for 3 bars.
I'd do a boost leak test just to confirm you don't have a leak, not a smoke test a proper boost leak. I've had boost leaks that don't show up till the pressure exceeds 15psi (~185kpa absolute, ~82kpa for atmosphere here in Denver)
12-15-2020, 08:26 AM
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Is my best course of action at this point just going back to the stock tune then? As I said before, I've owned the car for almost 5 years now and switched the top MAP (and plug because it went from 3 to 2.5 bar) early on. If I needed the gms1 sensors, running one gms1 (lower MAP) and one OEM MAP (top), I thought I would have encountered a lot more problems a lot more frequently. Like I said earlier as well, when I first changed the top MAP and went back to 2.5 bar, I didnt realize the gms1 had their own sensors - I wish I would have before I switched the plugs. But the dealers, or any other shops, had to special order the OEM MAP's and that's what I got. I just thought the previous owner had maybe done something funky.
I'm just wondering now though, now that I'm back to both OEM MAP's if it just makes more sense to have a dealer strip the tune. And what the likelihood is that this clears my codes/fixes boost?
And I could definitely run a boost leak test again as it's been a few years since I have. I had a shop so it before so I'm assuming it was done properly. Again though, I had no issues with my turbo hitting boost (if it didnt decide to cut out) before finally switching this lower MAP. Literally the drive home I knew the car was different, it just took me a few days to really get a chance to try a pull on the highway.
I'm just wondering now though, now that I'm back to both OEM MAP's if it just makes more sense to have a dealer strip the tune. And what the likelihood is that this clears my codes/fixes boost?
And I could definitely run a boost leak test again as it's been a few years since I have. I had a shop so it before so I'm assuming it was done properly. Again though, I had no issues with my turbo hitting boost (if it didnt decide to cut out) before finally switching this lower MAP. Literally the drive home I knew the car was different, it just took me a few days to really get a chance to try a pull on the highway.
Last edited by Sickoxide; 12-15-2020 at 08:35 AM.
12-15-2020, 02:06 PM
#6
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Get the 3 bar maps From Tom @ Crate engine depot. Also get the 2 black o-rings( one for each map) . You can buy them from crate engine depot as well. It's like $ 22 bucks each sensor & like 2 bucks for the o-rings. Very easy. That's your cheapest route. How are your maps connecting to the harness. Through pigtails or butt connectors? If it's the butt connectors I would look into re-crimping them. Only if y have issues after installing 3 bar maps. Also, check for boost leaks from that lower T-map sensor/intercooler/ and charge pipes. So change to 3 bar maps. Then boost leak test. Use spray bottle/ dish soap/water. Good luck report back with results
12-15-2020, 02:20 PM
#7
You'd likely pay as much - if not more - to have the tune changed back to stock by a dealer, as you would just buying the correct sensors. And honestly, I'm not 100% sure that the dealer can do that - I'm sure they probably can, but I can't say for certain with any confidence.
https://zzperformance.com/products/gm-stage-1-sensors
https://zzperformance.com/products/gm-stage-1-sensors
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