KillerBee

Well there went the twinscrew and if they can not get it running for a week or so how is it gunna run for 50k miles the way it seems to me is that they got some twinscrews slapped them together to work for a min and got 5 people to buy a kit so they could have some money for R&D because if you read other threads on the twinscrew there is always something coming up and always waiting for something you figured since they have sold 5 kits that they would have enough R&D money to get a kit flowing better and why have they never consulted a professional like this poor feller who has lost MONEY, TIME, AND A LOT OF STRESS.

The point is that they should of never sold the kits without having 1 kit completly tested and working properly. Why do you need 5 test vehicles there should of been 1 and 1 only.

This is my opinion on the situation please dont take this as bashing.

Cobalt4Life

makes me wonder if they didnt have the 4 grand in hand to refund him.. either way he should of got his money back.. or at least fixed the car and gave him the blower at half the price for the length of the car not in use do to the motor being hurt.. i hope all goes well.

KillerBee

At this point he should get a full refund plus the cash for all the stuff that went wrong with his car. This guy has been paitent for a long time. And it seems that rebel wants to keep giving him something besides a refund so your probably right they dont have the cash to give him. But once he files a claim through pay pal then he should be good for the kit but lost for all the other parts that were messed up

2K5SS/SC?

Wow! Hmmm.... Let me get all my details together and I'll be back for my official post to this.

KillerBee

Better hurry before it gets locked

2K5SS/SC?

Here are my thoughts, opinions, and personal experiences on this whole ordeal...

1. I went into talks about fabricating and producing the twinscrew kit with Jim back in the October/November 2006 time frame when he worked at TAG Racecraft.

2. Jim left TAG Racecraft because of the shady dealings they were doing. In fact all of the original payments were sent to TAG Racecraft and I have proof as my Paypal account reflects the initial $1500 deposit I sent on 15 Dec 2006. Jim ordered the blowers from Lysholm with the initial deposits. Guess what happened if you paid full price for the kit upfront, the owner of TAG Racecraft took and spent it all and dumped the kit completely, so Jim was left with just the blowers. I have talked with Mase, Jim, and the shady freaking owner of TAG Racecraft personally.

3. Jim and Mase not wanting to screw everyone over like the owner of TAG Racecraft did went and started the now known Rebel Auto Worxs company we have and pressed on with the R&D of the kit. Call Mase and ask him how much he is into these kits for as now all the money for the initial parts machining, testing, and whatnot came out of his own pocket and Jim's as well. Thus, the reason why for a refund to happen it would be like taking even more money from these guys who didn't even have it in the first place!

4. After the kit was finished being made, it was tested on RG4's car for about 3 weeks and then sent to me for final testing and tuning. They made 284whp on a part tuned dyno pull that was not even run out past like 5600rpms if I remember correctly. The reason being is that I was the only one with a clutch capable of harnessing the power.

5. Once I received the kit, I installed it and had some minor issues with a vacuum line I hooked up wrong. I recommended that the instructions be changed to clearly reflect proper routing of the vacuum lines. I also recommended a change for a few other minor things in the instructions. After fixing that minor issue, BAM I had 24psi of boost at my disposal!

6. Upon driving the car for a bit I found that the hose for the brake booster received too much vacuum and was actually pulling down the brake pedal causing the brakes to come on. I did a quick fix for my kit and reported it immediately to Jim and Mase. BoomInIt's kit he received was quite different from mine and reflected the change on the blower’s intake piece. This was done really quick considering he was pushing for his kit for NOPI just like Ralliartist was as well. I was also prepping my car for the NOPI Nationals in Atlanta as well, so I feel their pain on that.

7. After spending a week straight of data logging and tuning my car everyday after work and even on my lunch breaks, I finally got it to the point where I could take it to a dyno for final tuning. On the dyno my first pull laid down 200whp! I continued on getting the A/F ratios straight. After looking at the timing table finally and adding 2* of timing across a large section of it, I laid down 272whp! A huge improvement over my 238whp with my 2.6" pulley on the M62 with all my mods fully tuned. (The Mustang dyno I go to reads really low and we can go into that discussion on another thread if you want.) After some more tweaking, I decided it was time to try spraying some methanol/water mix. When I did the meth kits check valve self destructed and dumped 1-1.5 quarts of meth into the engine on one dyno pull! I luckily didn't break anything else somehow from it. I could continue on tuning though as it caused a huge vacuum leak as I tapped it into the manifold adapter plate and there was no longer a positive block from the check valve preventing air from getting sucked in.

8. I went home and undid my methanol kit and plugged the hole for the nozzle with a NPT plug. I also noticed there was a drip of oil near the snout seal, but I thought it was from me filling the blower as I spilt just a bit since the hole is so small. I prepared for a class the military was sending me on in Florida, and packed up the Cobalt. I left Charleston, SC and made it to Savannah, GA when all of the sudden I smelled some smoke and pulled the car over. I popped the hood to find the seal blew and oil was everywhere. I had my tools, so I pulled the blower off while waiting for my friend to drive from Charleston with his car trailer and truck to come pick it up with my girlfriend following behind in my truck so I could press on with the trip to Florida for my class. The blower was locked together and toasted. I called Mase and left a message and he got back to me later that day as it was Sunday. We discussed the matter and a new blower was ordered shortly thereafter free of charge to me. My blower was sent to PSE Superchargers for inspection as they are an authorized dealer for Lysholm and come to find out my blower was one in a bad batch that was sent out as the Flying Miata kit uses the same blower and they were having issues too.

9. Mase and Jim redesigned the snout and made all the changes I suggested for the kit. This is when Ralliartist and BoomInIt received their kits considering the push for the NOPI Nationals. They obviously had the same oil issue with the kit, but were not nearly as bad off as myself because I had to sell my old blower to pay for the new blower due to the transmission I had to replace right before getting the kit. So my car sat in my driveway from mid August until mid December without a blower. Mase knowing this offered up his stock supercharger from his car to get me running again so the car could be moved around and driven while I am currently deployed. I received it and order another 2.6" pulley and was back in business for a week or so before I deployed to the desert right before Christmas and I am currently at until June/July time frame.

10. Mase had to replace his own engine in his redline due it being blown in conjunction with another project meanwhile trying to take his finals for college, so he could graduate. Once he got that done he tested the newest snout and found its building pressure inside the oil housing somehow blowing out the seal and causing the leak. He is currently working with PSE Superchargers on the snout design and using an oil feed and drain kit (similar to a turbo kits) as well. He hopes to have the issue resolved soon as he refuses to let send the kits back without them running 110% reliably for daily driving/abuse! I cannot blame him for this either.

11. Sorry for the long speal, but those are indeed the facts of this whole endeavor and where I stand. I feel the guys at Rebel are trying their best and working diligently at it trying to make this kit happen. Personally from talking with Mase, I can tell that he takes this kit to heart and refuses admit failure and give up. You just don't find any companies these days willing to go where Rebel has.

12. If you plan on never buying anything from Rebel again, then so be it. I do however think that they should be given a chance to prove themselves here and make good on the kit. This takes time however, and I can honestly say that I've been the most patient and understanding here. I will contact Mase and Jim and give details/updates when given them. I'm out!

Harrop

Assuming they have made contact via a less public medium first.
This concept has absolutely got my support!
I trust it would tell good stories as well as not-so-good.

That's possibly a little harsh, and unrealistic.
If no-one ever bought a new product from this day forward, progress ceases ... totally.
As a designer & manufacturer, we try and think of everything ... hence the FMEA process, durability testing, pre-release programs etc. Sometimes (rarely), an unknown or unpredicted issue comes up during service that needs attention. The key is communication ... open and honest with a common goal. I sincerely believe that all designs can be improved upon ... accepting constructive criticism is vital to development.

I feel genuine sadness for all involved in this case ... I am sure everyone had good intentions and it has now gone ugly. No-one benefits from the result, but I do support the concept of an "open" vendors feedback system ... assuming the participants can be mature and honest - not personal or vindictive. It should not be used as a "venting" platform, but as a method of rating customer satisfaction.

anthonyS88

wow thanks for posting this, and i hope everything works out for you

JRelly

QFT

2K5SS/SC?

JRelly, excuse my ingnorance but what does QFT mean?

lsjwannabe

iTrader: (1)

quote for truth

Edubs

I completely agree.

chevysalesman614

also IBTL. I'm glad my wife talked me out of sending him the money.

an0malous

All these reasons (excuses IMO) are all well and good.

but it does not change the fact, that NONE of that, is a customers responsibility.

not a single little bit.

BoomInIt

Correct , their personal issues have nothing to do with the fact they said the kit was going to be finished by a specific date and then surpassed that date by a year.
Everyone has their own things going on, an to say one persons is more important than anothers is rediculous.
I lost EVERYTHING in hurricane katrina except the cobalt because I evacuated with it. Then I'm purchasing this kit, and this happens.By the way I'm graduating college too and have my own business, so I could care less what personal issues they have.
Business is business, they offered me a working product they can not and did not provide.
A customer should never have to track a business down for an already paid for product.
Not for updates,shipping or anything they have my number and email they could have done something about this.If they were trying to smooth things over how come they still havent sent me the rest of the damage money that their defective kit caused to my car!


Here's my hood for pity points. LOL

Kaisoboy

This is why I do not buy a product that has not been tested and proven. I don't care what kind of promises they give.

DoubleLP

I completely agree. This is a brand new product and a major product at that, and it is going to take time to make it work 100% without any flaws. As was already said, it was well known that Rebel needed to do R&D with this product and those who put money down were well aware of it.

It is ALWAYS a risk when you buy a new product that has never been used before, and that has to be remembered when trying out these new products. The first few customers should be keeping very good contact with Rebel giving them all the details of what problems were found, and I am sure that Rebel would have been more then willing to help the customer out.

At the same time, Rebel should have been a little more proactive when the customer came to them with a problem. I do understand that they were busy with other products, but these are customers with a car that they need to run to get around with. The customer should have been the #1 priority instead of making them wait.

SS33

Especially for the premium customers who also pay for our memberships,,,

I understand wanting to protect your investors from unfounded bashing. But legitimate cases such as this need to have a venue for exposure. Possibly having a section that requires thread approval, i.e. the how-to section would remedy this

DoubleLP

Agreed. We need to have a place to be able to vent. But at the same time we have to be mature about our vents and not be "F**K this and F**K that..."

ralliartist

WOW, after reading 2K5SS/SC's long post, I just have to say that I never put my money in on this kit and I never recieved a kit as I was waiting for other people to post positive results after seeing his "not so great" dyno. But I'm not buying the twinscrew at all anymore.

TVS FTW! thanks Harrop!

liolixli

That is part of what I don't like with companies. I work six or seven days a week a lot. I still check my e-mail daily and get online to update any conversations. I even take my cell phone everywhere incase someone wants to call me when I'm out or off work. I wish there was a higher standard for communication. Some companies put the business second and personal life first. It shouldn't be that way. Still, most people just don't care that much, so it is commonly accepted. That is what I love about some companies too. We are open 7 days a week 13.5 hours a day. Half of the places out there are 5 or less days and barely 8 hour days. After working so hard in my own life dealing with other businesses sometimes can be annoying.

Why that annoys me is I'm on here defending them after that. They still haven't showed up to chime in on anything. I'm even half tempted to give the guy some money and I'm not directly involved. The point being there that effort and time spent brings care on both sides.

SS33

This is what really causes ppl to escalate these things. Regardless of product or company size, cust service is paramount

rukkee

iTrader: (3)

I'm not agreeing or defending Rebel but for someone that is so worried about their car being damaged why the hell would you allow all that oil from the SC to dump in your engine compartment? I know it add's to dramatic effect but thats kind of idiotic .

BoomInIt

Oil had already been poured and slung all over my engine bay, it also burnt a severe gash into my hood blanket amoung causing other damages. When things like this occur it always helps to have video of it to help prove what exactly caused the damages.

SS33

Yes what was he thinking putting oil where it is supposed to be

the damage had been done already, he was just documenting it,,, you know the adage, a whole picture is worth a thousand words??? A video allows for everyone to comprehend what exactly is occuring