NoRemorse

The 60's max it out at anything over like 5k rpm. Easy fix though with the VE and PE tables, so it's not that big of a deal.

Mase could though....

Toronto SS

+1 respect.

I've spent spent a fair bit of time at the TAG shop getting work done and just chilling. The last time I was there they worked from 8am til just after midnight (16 hour work day).

Good work takes time.

Jumpin Fool

For anyone else that wants to speak without knowing...
While serving full time in the military and maintaining a personal life, I ran a business by myself in a foreign country and in a foreign language. Mel isn't alone up there.
I'm not talking about posting something every second/minute/hour/day with pics and a full progress report. I'm talking about an update and pics when something significant is accomplished(like the snout).

Amen

You mean bothering them when they should be working? Hey guys, this is the kind of person we can thank for slowing down the project. Did it make you feel cool the be "chillin" with the fellahs at the shop?

Taking the necessary time is not the problem. It's the lack of updates, as stated before. Or didn't you read that part?

Have I covered everything?

Toronto SS

Youre a ******* jerk off... Peace

InfinityzeN

Ok, I just gotta comment on this because it is bugging me. Your PSI *DOES NOT* matter!!! Screw PSI, you want that as low as you can possibly get it since the higher it is the more stress you put on your engine. What is important is CFM of airflow.

Look at it like this. The M62 is rated for 400cfm at 16,000rpm. This thing, if it is the type of twinscrew I'm thinking of, is rated at between 700 and 750cfm at 20,000rpm.

So you figure out how much CFM of air you want to flow, based on how much your engine can handle, trying to stay at your superchargers peak efficiency range. For the M62, thats 9~12psi peak range, with a dropoff at ~18.5psi. But you can lower the psi without lowering the CFM by increasing your cooling and improving your motors flow characteristics. Same CFM with lower PSI = more power.

That twinscrew will flow about 1.5 times as much air per rpm, has lower parasitic loss, won't put at as much heat, and can operate at a lot higher psi before it gets inefficient. Of course, your engine won't handle that psi without major work and going up that high is kinda pointless.

Here is something to think about though. Since both the twinscrew and the roots supers compress in the manifold (though the twinscrew does push air that is already compressed in there so it is more efficient), the same CFM from this thing will net you the same manifold psi as the roots if you don't change anything else. Of course, you'll make more power since the air is cooler and the supercharger isn't taking as much power to turn.

So whats my point?

STOP TALKING ABOUT FREAKING PSI SINCE IT IS A BY PRODUCT OF ANY FORCED INDUCTION SYSTEM!!! CUBIC FEET A MINUTE OF AIR IS WHAT DETERMINES YOUR POWER!!! ARG!!!

Toronto SS

I realize I should let it go... but who's cars are the ones being used for testing, R&D, etc?

The local people in the area that's who.

So why not take the negativity elsewhere.

CleanNFun

What is with the hostility in here geez. If you have something to say, make a different topic and flame away there. You are just making this thread worse with all your crap and stupid comments. So you want something to come out, we all want something at some point, just sit there and shut up. If you can do better then show them up, otherwise just throw some words of encouragement instead of idiocy, and save up your money for when it comes out .

Cobalt_Supercharged

InfinityzeN = +4 for truthatude

Scythe_Snake

Here we go again, the twin screw thread will be once agained ruined.

How about this, everyone just sit back and WAIT for this already QUICK aftermarket to catch up. Its amazing how fast the aftermarket and companies like TAG to start and make stuff so quickly for our cars, so lets show a bit of appreciation and just sit back, hope, and WAIT!!!

yellowcobaltss05

what i said

stryder

Isn't that why they have more than one person who works there, and don't they have a direct rep. for the cobalts/ions.

R&C_rallySS

Thanks alot for this info. I really did learn alot from your post and I'm looking forward to this swap because of effiency.

TVS_SS

Well..not to nit pick.. but its not CFM either.. its "MASS" Airflow that determines power.

CFM is a volumetric flowrate and as you know, air varies in density by pressure and temperature

Mass flow is telling you how many molecules of oxygen (essentially) are entering your engine.

rickyw

Its people like you that will drive away vendors please refrain from posting on this thread anymore so this thread doesnt become a dead in.

JMAc88

The 5 that should be the most concerned about the development of this project are
1.2K5SS/SC? Deposit made !
2.Jumpin Fool Deposit made !
3.black06ss Deposit made!
4.JMAc88 Deposit made!
5. BoomInIt Deposit made!
all of which have not posted in here except for now, it takes time, we understand heckeling will not make it go faster. I would rather them take thier time and make a bolt on kit then a half assed kit that you have to modify (also what sets tag apart from others)

rickyw

exactly......that is all

ItalianJoe1

iTrader: (10)

Right. At least we dont have any money laid out that we are waiting to see a return on. Give them a break. A true, bolt on kit that works right the first time will be worth the wait.

Jumpin Fool

Thanks for pointing that out. I have made legitimate complaints. For those that couldn't read it the first time...
I'm not asking them to pull a kit out of an orifice in record time. I simply want updates. No one from here should have to call them to find out what's going on. If you can't understand that and want to talk about how much time it's going to take, how I should have patience then I can't help you understand. I've had patience. Anybody want to take a look at the list? I've been in this from the beginning. So all of you that have NOTHING invested can go take a long hike, off a short cliff, and jump in the lake. I'm sure that humor will be lost on the slower crowd.
All of you that have asked questions about "How much cost/HP/work?" or "How long/when is it coming out?" Try reading the forum. It's all been answered. Or how about this, for the lazy ones, THEY DON'T KNOW any of the answers. It's all guesses. All the answers that Jim was pushing were assumptions. Everything from price to HP and when it was going to be released. I got that straight from Mel in a phone conversation and everybody that has been in it for the long haul can verify that.
I've got an idea. How about all the wannabes stay off the thread and leave it to TAG and those of us on the list? Then when I log on I won't have to sift through all the crap just to find out that TAG hasn't posted anything. The other benefit is that the new people won't have to sift through to find all the answers to their questions. It's an amazing concept.
Now I know some cry baby is going to have something to say. That will just prove to me that they've missed my point exactly.

WHEW! I'm spent

stryder

Lets all take into consideration that most of the people who want updates and such saw how fast the turbo swap was finished and put on the market showing TAGs determination and speed to satisfy our need for speed. So most thought that the Twinscrew swap would take less time if not the same. (Flame on me if you want but isn't it true that when Jim was there we had an update of somekind every day or other day.)

JCswoosher2

So right now there sitting on 5 $2500 payments? thats crazy.

tcolli17

The deposit wasn't for the full amount.

InfinityzeN

Yes your correct. That was more of a rant then a clean post.

To clear up a few things. No matter which SC (roots or TS) you use to move air into the engine, you'll end up with the same PSI for the same CFM. A cooler temp for the air moving in will have a higher density or "MASS" and thous more oxygen, so it will generate more power. That is where cooling helps.

With a 2.7" pulley, at 7k engine rpm, you will be right around 16k on the SC. So figure about 1cfm for every 40 SC rpm or 17.5 engine rpm. Even at worse case, your still going to move over .9cfm every that number of rpm. What you want to do is get the mass of that set volume as high as possible. Oh yes, while I'm thinking of it, this set volume per so many rotations is what gives SC their instant power, responsiveness, and flat torque curves.

A properly sized blower with a properly sized pulley for the engines air requirements, with cams that flow well through the desired rpms, and in which the blower never leaves its efficient zone will give you a near flat-lined torque curve. Of course, if you compare how mostly flat the SS/SC is stock to the steadily greater and greater high end torque drop you get with smaller pulleys, you'll see the effect of moving out of that efficient zone.

Cooling the air, or at least protecting it from heat soak, coming into the SC gives you more mass per volume, and thous more oxygen to burn. Kinda why boost and power go up in colder times of the year. Cold air intakes help here by pulling in cooler outside air. Heat wrapping helps to, since it helps prevent the air from being heated by your hot running engine. Water injection also helps somewhat if it is before your blower, though it does far more with the next step.

Next we have the air going into your supercharger. Now when your SC is hot, air moving into it is heated and starts expanding, or taking up more volume per mass. Since your SC is moving a set volume per rotation (and even worse case is moving over 90% of its peak rated per rotation), you want to make sure that there is as much mass as possible per volume. So we have to ether cool the SC more or make sure it doesn't heat up the air as much. Water injection before the blower does both of those and this should help you see part of how it gets you more power. A hood designed to pull air over the SC and then eject it from the engine bay will help cool down the SC as well (along with most other things under the hood).

Then there is cooling the air in the manifold (as the SS/SC aftercooler does) which increases the density of the air compressing inside of the manifold. This denser air takes up less space, so increasing the cooling in your manifold will giving you more dense air with lower heat (duh!), lower PSI (the volume of the air is lower), and more power (more mass of air+fuel, better timings due to lower heat).

So once you have done all of that, you'll be pretty close to maxing out the raw mass that the M62 can move. Now you have to do things to help the engine use that mass. Head work (porting, polishing), valve (bigger isn't always better though) and valve train work, higher flowing cams (more below), header work and exhaust (gotta get all that air your putting in out).

A word on cams. If you don't see a drop in your PSI after switching cams (with no other changes made), the cams are not flowing more. If they move the best flow range of your engine, it will cause one of two effects.

If your boost builds slower at the lower to mid rpm range, but spikes up to your old peak or higher, the cams have moved your engines better flowing range down the rpms.

If your boost builds up faster, levels off (again at or over your old peak), then drops, the cams have moved your engines better flowing range up the rpms.

From all I have seen so far, the TriFlow move you up the rpm range. Won't know for sure until more people get them, install them, tune them, and post results.

Everyone is welcome to nitpick this post

BoomInIt

Bolt on = Happy

Red2.4SS/SC

no just 5, 1500 deposits

XenSS06

iTrader: (4)

any updates?