GM Stage tune from TriFecta
12-27-2009, 02:13 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 05-11-06
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 967
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GM Stage tune from TriFecta
I just wanted to let everyone know the latest break through from TriFecta Performance.
As many members are on the fence when trying to decide which tune to go with for their 08/09 SS TC, Vince of TriFecta now has another option.
Some members prefer the GM stage tune because they are worried about warranty but they can not afford the cost a dealer will charge to up-load the tune and install the new GM sensor.
So.... TriFecta is now offering the GM stage tune. BUT, for use with the stock sensors.
He has thoroughly tested the GM stage tune on his own HHR TC with the stock sensors. No codes, no problems, no issues at all.
For those of you wishing to stick with GM tuning and not able to afford the sensors or labor to install the sensors, this is the perfect solution. The tune will report as the stock GM tune when checked by the GM scan tool. And, Vince can allow you to choose between the bone stock tune and GM Stage tune with the press of a button when selecting competion mode.
No other tuning company or "tuner" is capable of this. Great job to Vince of TriFecta for yet another innovation.
As many members are on the fence when trying to decide which tune to go with for their 08/09 SS TC, Vince of TriFecta now has another option.
Some members prefer the GM stage tune because they are worried about warranty but they can not afford the cost a dealer will charge to up-load the tune and install the new GM sensor.
So.... TriFecta is now offering the GM stage tune. BUT, for use with the stock sensors.
He has thoroughly tested the GM stage tune on his own HHR TC with the stock sensors. No codes, no problems, no issues at all.
For those of you wishing to stick with GM tuning and not able to afford the sensors or labor to install the sensors, this is the perfect solution. The tune will report as the stock GM tune when checked by the GM scan tool. And, Vince can allow you to choose between the bone stock tune and GM Stage tune with the press of a button when selecting competion mode.
No other tuning company or "tuner" is capable of this. Great job to Vince of TriFecta for yet another innovation.
12-27-2009, 02:33 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: 10-28-08
Location: New Milford, NJ
Posts: 5,068
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what kind of power gains would owners be likely to see from this tune? cause IIRC the 290whp/320ish wtq was with the installation of those new sensors.
so without the sensors what will the gains be?
so without the sensors what will the gains be?
12-27-2009, 02:47 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-12-09
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Really? To say that no other 'tuner' is capable of this would be an outright lie. The GMPP tune on stock sensors WILL NOT be covered under warranty. I am sorry, I like what Vince does, his work is absolutely great, but saying this is absurd.
I know his tunes are 'hidden' from the dealer. But to offer the GMPP tune, and say it would be warrantied would be ignorant. Any of his tunes are (apparently) 'warrantied', as they are (apparently) 'hidden' from the dealer. I just see something wrong with calling it the GMPP tune. It may be the tune, but its not the GMPP KIT.
Maybe its just me, but I wanna know what other people think about it.
I know his tunes are 'hidden' from the dealer. But to offer the GMPP tune, and say it would be warrantied would be ignorant. Any of his tunes are (apparently) 'warrantied', as they are (apparently) 'hidden' from the dealer. I just see something wrong with calling it the GMPP tune. It may be the tune, but its not the GMPP KIT.
Maybe its just me, but I wanna know what other people think about it.
12-27-2009, 03:06 AM
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 05-11-06
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 967
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The gains will be the same as the GM sensors are not required. This has been questioned and discussed many, many times. Some supposedly representing GM have tried to justify the use of the sensors by saying they are required. Vince found out many months ago the sensors are NOT required to run the tune.
When I said he was the "ONLY" one capable, it was not a lie. Currently no other software supports, or tuners using software are capable of, re-mapping the sensors. Vince is, thus he is the "only one capable" to offer the GM tune with the stock sensors.
I specifically titled this thread the "GM stage tune", not kit, for the exact reason you mentioned, the new GM sensors are not used. The tune itself is the actual GM stage tune.
This is still an after-market tune so warranty can not be guaranteed. But it is not, currently, detectable with the scan tool.
What I was trying to say is this:
since the GM stage tune is now readily available for down-load on other tuning sites, anyone with the means to up-load the tune can purchase the GM sensors and basically offer the "GM Stage kit". The purchaser can save several hundred dollars by not having to go through a dealership. BUT, if scanned by the GM tool, the tune will be read as an after market tune and GM can void the warranty.
With the GM tune Vince is sending, and the fact it is not detectable, the tune is reported as "stock". Thus the dealership not being able to void the warranty on the grounds of the tune being read as after market.
I hope that clears things up.
Thanks guys.
When I said he was the "ONLY" one capable, it was not a lie. Currently no other software supports, or tuners using software are capable of, re-mapping the sensors. Vince is, thus he is the "only one capable" to offer the GM tune with the stock sensors.
I specifically titled this thread the "GM stage tune", not kit, for the exact reason you mentioned, the new GM sensors are not used. The tune itself is the actual GM stage tune.
This is still an after-market tune so warranty can not be guaranteed. But it is not, currently, detectable with the scan tool.
What I was trying to say is this:
since the GM stage tune is now readily available for down-load on other tuning sites, anyone with the means to up-load the tune can purchase the GM sensors and basically offer the "GM Stage kit". The purchaser can save several hundred dollars by not having to go through a dealership. BUT, if scanned by the GM tool, the tune will be read as an after market tune and GM can void the warranty.
With the GM tune Vince is sending, and the fact it is not detectable, the tune is reported as "stock". Thus the dealership not being able to void the warranty on the grounds of the tune being read as after market.
I hope that clears things up.
Thanks guys.
12-27-2009, 03:12 AM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-12-09
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The gains will be the same as the GM sensors are not required. This has been questioned and discussed many, many times. Some supposedly representing GM have tried to justify the use of the sensors by saying they are required. Vince found out many months ago the sensors are NOT required to run the tune.
When I said he was the "ONLY" one capable, it was not a lie. Currently no other software supports, or tuners using software are capable of, re-mapping the sensors. Vince is, thus he is the "only one capable" to offer the GM tune with the stock sensors.
I specifically titled this thread the "GM stage tune", not kit, for the exact reason you mentioned, the new GM sensors are not used. The tune itself is the actual GM stage tune.
This is still an after-market tune so warranty can not be guaranteed. But it is not, currently, detectable with the scan tool.
What I was trying to say is this:
since the GM stage tune is now readily available for down-load on other tuning sites, anyone with the means to up-load the tune can purchase the GM sensors and basically offer the "GM Stage kit". The purchaser can save several hundred dollars by not having to go through a dealership. BUT, if scanned by the GM tool, the tune will be read as an after market tune and GM can void the warranty.
With the GM tune Vince is sending, and the fact it is not detectable, the tune is reported as "stock". Thus the dealership not being able to void the warranty on the grounds of the tune being read as after market.
I hope that clears things up.
Thanks guys.
When I said he was the "ONLY" one capable, it was not a lie. Currently no other software supports, or tuners using software are capable of, re-mapping the sensors. Vince is, thus he is the "only one capable" to offer the GM tune with the stock sensors.
I specifically titled this thread the "GM stage tune", not kit, for the exact reason you mentioned, the new GM sensors are not used. The tune itself is the actual GM stage tune.
This is still an after-market tune so warranty can not be guaranteed. But it is not, currently, detectable with the scan tool.
What I was trying to say is this:
since the GM stage tune is now readily available for down-load on other tuning sites, anyone with the means to up-load the tune can purchase the GM sensors and basically offer the "GM Stage kit". The purchaser can save several hundred dollars by not having to go through a dealership. BUT, if scanned by the GM tool, the tune will be read as an after market tune and GM can void the warranty.
With the GM tune Vince is sending, and the fact it is not detectable, the tune is reported as "stock". Thus the dealership not being able to void the warranty on the grounds of the tune being read as after market.
I hope that clears things up.
Thanks guys.
Vince is still the man, and he does awesome work. Also, last time I talked to him, he stated he does NOT scale the MAP sensors, because I asked him if he could do this (as I would like to run more than the 3 bar GMPP sensors). If this has changed, I would like to know. I really want to run the 5 BAR AEM sensors, if at all possible (looking at 40+ psi, big turbo...). Hopefully he comes up with something, as I se myself being stuck at 500whp for a while without the ability for new sensors!
12-27-2009, 03:45 AM
#8
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: 06-11-07
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,559
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hate to burst your bubble but many parts of your statements are wrong.
Trifecta tuning (Vince) isn't the only person that can do it, just the only person (mainstream global community tuner)currently doing this.
As far as having it where GM can't tell that its an aftermarket tune well thats not really a problem either, Vince is just adjusting the codes so that the CVN number still matches or can be flashed back to stock so that the CVN number still matches. Any one with HP Tuners can keep a copy of their stock tune and flash it back when they go to the dealership so please dont attempt to make it sound like trifecta is the only software system that can do that. Article taken from Trifecta:
http://www.trifectaperformance.com/t...hTuneisNOT.htm
Any other tuner can do this, the simple fact here is everyone of you attempt to cheat the system.
"I want a race car with a warranty" sorry, this is life, grow up. If you want a car to abuse then dont expect a warranty, if you want a warranty then dont abuse the car.
Trifecta tuning (Vince) isn't the only person that can do it, just the only person (mainstream global community tuner)currently doing this.
As far as having it where GM can't tell that its an aftermarket tune well thats not really a problem either, Vince is just adjusting the codes so that the CVN number still matches or can be flashed back to stock so that the CVN number still matches. Any one with HP Tuners can keep a copy of their stock tune and flash it back when they go to the dealership so please dont attempt to make it sound like trifecta is the only software system that can do that. Article taken from Trifecta:
http://www.trifectaperformance.com/t...hTuneisNOT.htm
Any other tuner can do this, the simple fact here is everyone of you attempt to cheat the system.
"I want a race car with a warranty" sorry, this is life, grow up. If you want a car to abuse then dont expect a warranty, if you want a warranty then dont abuse the car.
12-27-2009, 03:52 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: 10-28-08
Location: New Milford, NJ
Posts: 5,068
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for clearing it up. I guess the biggest hurdle for myself is actually believing that the Trifecta tune is undetectable. I know he has tested and tested it, and i take his word as truth, but I am the type of guy that needs to see it himself!
Vince is still the man, and he does awesome work. Also, last time I talked to him, he stated he does NOT scale the MAP sensors, because I asked him if he could do this (as I would like to run more than the 3 bar GMPP sensors). If this has changed, I would like to know. I really want to run the 5 BAR AEM sensors, if at all possible (looking at 40+ psi, big turbo...). Hopefully he comes up with something, as I se myself being stuck at 500whp for a while without the ability for new sensors!
Vince is still the man, and he does awesome work. Also, last time I talked to him, he stated he does NOT scale the MAP sensors, because I asked him if he could do this (as I would like to run more than the 3 bar GMPP sensors). If this has changed, I would like to know. I really want to run the 5 BAR AEM sensors, if at all possible (looking at 40+ psi, big turbo...). Hopefully he comes up with something, as I se myself being stuck at 500whp for a while without the ability for new sensors!
sorry if this post makes no sense it is now 3:52 in the morning and im running on close to no sleep.
g'night fellas
12-27-2009, 03:54 AM
#10
I hate to burst your bubble but many parts of your statements are wrong.
Trifecta tuning (Vince) isn't the only person that can do it, just the only person (mainstream global community tuner)currently doing this.
As far as having it where GM can't tell that its an aftermarket tune well thats not really a problem either, Vince is just adjusting the codes so that the CVN number still matches or can be flashed back to stock so that the CVN number still matches. Any one with HP Tuners can keep a copy of their stock tune and flash it back when they go to the dealership so please dont attempt to make it sound like trifecta is the only software system that can do that. Article taken from Trifecta:
http://www.trifectaperformance.com/t...hTuneisNOT.htm
Any other tuner can do this, the simple fact here is everyone of you attempt to cheat the system.
"I want a race car with a warranty" sorry, this is life, grow up. If you want a car to abuse then dont expect a warranty, if you want a warranty then dont abuse the car.
Trifecta tuning (Vince) isn't the only person that can do it, just the only person (mainstream global community tuner)currently doing this.
As far as having it where GM can't tell that its an aftermarket tune well thats not really a problem either, Vince is just adjusting the codes so that the CVN number still matches or can be flashed back to stock so that the CVN number still matches. Any one with HP Tuners can keep a copy of their stock tune and flash it back when they go to the dealership so please dont attempt to make it sound like trifecta is the only software system that can do that. Article taken from Trifecta:
http://www.trifectaperformance.com/t...hTuneisNOT.htm
Any other tuner can do this, the simple fact here is everyone of you attempt to cheat the system.
"I want a race car with a warranty" sorry, this is life, grow up. If you want a car to abuse then dont expect a warranty, if you want a warranty then dont abuse the car.
12-27-2009, 04:11 AM
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 05-11-06
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 967
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hate to burst your bubble but many parts of your statements are wrong.
Trifecta tuning (Vince) isn't the only person that can do it, just the only person (mainstream global community tuner)currently doing this.
As far as having it where GM can't tell that its an aftermarket tune well thats not really a problem either, Vince is just adjusting the codes so that the CVN number still matches or can be flashed back to stock so that the CVN number still matches. Any one with HP Tuners can keep a copy of their stock tune and flash it back when they go to the dealership so please dont attempt to make it sound like trifecta is the only software system that can do that. Article taken from Trifecta:
http://www.trifectaperformance.com/t...hTuneisNOT.htm
Any other tuner can do this, the simple fact here is everyone of you attempt to cheat the system.
"I want a race car with a warranty" sorry, this is life, grow up. If you want a car to abuse then dont expect a warranty, if you want a warranty then dont abuse the car.
Trifecta tuning (Vince) isn't the only person that can do it, just the only person (mainstream global community tuner)currently doing this.
As far as having it where GM can't tell that its an aftermarket tune well thats not really a problem either, Vince is just adjusting the codes so that the CVN number still matches or can be flashed back to stock so that the CVN number still matches. Any one with HP Tuners can keep a copy of their stock tune and flash it back when they go to the dealership so please dont attempt to make it sound like trifecta is the only software system that can do that. Article taken from Trifecta:
http://www.trifectaperformance.com/t...hTuneisNOT.htm
Any other tuner can do this, the simple fact here is everyone of you attempt to cheat the system.
"I want a race car with a warranty" sorry, this is life, grow up. If you want a car to abuse then dont expect a warranty, if you want a warranty then dont abuse the car.
As for HP Tuner software users, sure they can flash back to stock before going to the dealership, but with TriFecta tunes, you don't have to flash back. His tunes are NOT detectable. So let's say someone has his car tuned by an HP user from another state. He now wants to go to the the dealership for service but can't because he can not "flash back". The same customer has the TriFecta tune from out of state and doesn't have to worry about going to the dealership. If you enjoy HP tuners software, that's great. This thread is NOT intended for HP Tuners software users, it is intended for those NOT willing, NOT comfortable or NOT able to do their own tuning. There are enough HP tuner vs. the world threads, we don't need another.
If there is someone else in the "mainstrem" or not who is able to scale the stock sensors to allow the GM stage tune to work WITHOUT having to install the new sensors, who is it? If there are others then I will retract my statement about Vince being the only one. But without this info my statement stands.
mkriebs,
as for Vince scaling for sensors, YES, he is now capable so give him a call to discuss your custom tune for your future plans for 500+ HP.
Thanks again everyone.
12-27-2009, 04:21 AM
#12
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: 06-23-09
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
Posts: 3,820
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok im a complete noob when it comes to tuning. But to my knowledge GM is able to track not only the tune but how many times the ecm has been reflashed. So even if this new tune is flashed on then the count inside the ecm is then different from count that gm has for the car. Which means no tune is longer to be a stealth tune. Feel free to correct me if Im wrong. And if Vinces tunes truly are stealth tunes and they are safe tunes and gm decides to void a customers warranty due to somehow detecting the tune would vince be willing to step up and cover the warranty?
Dont get me wrong I will probably end up doing a trifecta tune but as of right now im looking for a new ecm bcm and tcm
Dont get me wrong I will probably end up doing a trifecta tune but as of right now im looking for a new ecm bcm and tcm
12-27-2009, 05:12 AM
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 05-11-06
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 967
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok im a complete noob when it comes to tuning. But to my knowledge GM is able to track not only the tune but how many times the ecm has been reflashed. So even if this new tune is flashed on then the count inside the ecm is then different from count that gm has for the car. Which means no tune is longer to be a stealth tune. Feel free to correct me if Im wrong. And if Vinces tunes truly are stealth tunes and they are safe tunes and gm decides to void a customers warranty due to somehow detecting the tune would vince be willing to step up and cover the warranty?
Dont get me wrong I will probably end up doing a trifecta tune but as of right now im looking for a new ecm bcm and tcm
Dont get me wrong I will probably end up doing a trifecta tune but as of right now im looking for a new ecm bcm and tcm
Thanks.
12-27-2009, 05:43 AM
#14
Senior Member
iTrader: (-1)
Join Date: 01-12-07
Location: Illinois
Posts: 692
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So you guys can offer the GM turbo upgrade tune for a stock car, but what if we get all the parts of said GM turbo upgrade, can vince still use the GM tune with the different sensors? even if we buy everything in the kit seperately?
12-27-2009, 06:12 AM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: 04-19-09
Location: Woodstock IL
Posts: 1,419
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm just asking this as a dumb question.Why would anyone want the GM tune from Trifecta instead of a Trifecta tune from Trifecta? What is the difference?I would guess my switchable Trifecta tune makes more power than the GM one.So if I read this right,you are going after the "fence sitters" by marketing a "GM" tune to quell the warranty worriers. Brilliant marketing.So anyone considering "tuning" your car,just get a normal Trifecta tune.I have 10k miles on my car being tuned by Trifecta,the fist one,then the swithchable one with more boost,with no problems.
12-27-2009, 06:14 AM
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 05-11-06
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 967
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, absolutely. If you have already installed the new sensors, he can send you the GM Stage tune to work with those sensors. The tune will be un-detectable and selectable on the fly like he offers now. You can have stock tune out of comp mode and GM Stage tune in comp mode. He is also working towards allowing up to three tunes to be selectable on the fly.
12-27-2009, 06:15 AM
#17
Senior Member
Whenever you choose to tune your pcm from what the factory originally installed, you take a risk. Vince/TriFecta will NOT cover, offer, etc the warranty in any way, shape or form. Currently the GM scan tool can NOT detect that the pcm has been flashed with TriFecta. However, if they decide to take a serious look at this and change the way in which they scan, there is just no way to know. They obviously would not make an announcement. If for some reason the dealership decided to send the PCM out for a factory diagnostic, they can see if it has been tuned and how many times. However, since the TriFecta tune is NOT currently detectable, there would have to be some serious warranty issues for them to decide to do this. Don't consider the "un-detectable" feature as an absolute guarantee, consider it an advantage for you to be able to run a safe and powerful tune with some peace of mind.
Thanks.
Thanks.
12-27-2009, 12:24 PM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: 10-28-08
Location: New Milford, NJ
Posts: 5,068
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nothing bad being said about vince or trifecta but GM is already do this with diesels. i used to work for GM when they started this. before any warranty work is to be done a bunch of images of the ecm are to be sent to GM for analysis and then the go ahead will be given and its only a matter of time before GM does the same thing with the cobalts
12-27-2009, 12:49 PM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-12-09
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if im not mistaken in order to get to your power goals you would need a fueling option and maybe ive been out of the loop for too long but as far as i remember Trifecta is the only tuner with the DI tables unlocked. so Trifecta would seem like the clear cut choice for you in all respects. GM stage tune for now, and fuel tables for pushing your 40psi down the road, and most likely the ability to tune for 5 bar sensors. and IIRC 5 bar sensors will allow for 74psi. are as far as i know the GMPP 3 bars are good for up to 44 psi. just letting you know that you may not have to drop more money than necessary building your car.
sorry if this post makes no sense it is now 3:52 in the morning and im running on close to no sleep.
g'night fellas
sorry if this post makes no sense it is now 3:52 in the morning and im running on close to no sleep.
g'night fellas
And seriously, I have obviously been doing my homework on the build, I know what needs to be done.
01-01-2010, 04:25 PM
#21
New Member
Join Date: 12-02-09
Location: VA
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Billy-the stage tune is more conservative and should be easier on the engine.
01-12-2010, 06:18 PM
#23
New Member
Join Date: 01-12-10
Location: housefull
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vince is still the man, and he does awesome work. Also, last time I talked to him, he stated he does NOT scale the MAP sensors, because I asked him if he could do this (as I would like to run more than the 3 bar GMPP sensors). If this has changed, I would like to know. I really want to run the 5 BAR AEM sensors, if at all possible (looking at 40+ psi, big turbo...). Hopefully he comes up with something, as I se myself being stuck at 500whp for a while without the ability for new sensors!
01-17-2010, 02:40 AM
#24
New Member
Join Date: 01-09-10
Location: Aurora, IL
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I may be new on this site and not the most tech savy guy in town. But to say that there is only one tuner out there willing or capable of doing something is just silly. There is always someone else that can do it as well if not better than the next guy. I'm sure Vince is a the top of the tuner list no doubt, but I'm equally sure than any number of tuners could do the same thing if they were pried out of their hondas long enough to look at a US engine.
01-31-2010, 09:08 PM
#25
Senior Member
Logically. I'm sure there are people who have been to their service departments for warranty work somewhere in the drive line. And I'm also sure that if the dealer had found something that was capable of voiding the warranty the people involved would be screaming from the roof tops, all over the forums, all kind of expletives at Trifecta, CIA and anybody else that cared to listen. Maybe I should knock on wood, but I haven't seen anybody here, on the forum, having had this kind of problem.
Having said that, anybody modifying an engine that is under a warranty as good as the SS, has to accept some risk. Everything automotive is subject to change. Nothing in life carries a better warranty than death.
And having said THAT I think I'll order my Trifecta tonight.
Hey Dan! Is there ANY benefit tuning on top of the 3 bar sensors or do you get the same results with or without and chalk up the cost of the stage kit to experience?
Having said that, anybody modifying an engine that is under a warranty as good as the SS, has to accept some risk. Everything automotive is subject to change. Nothing in life carries a better warranty than death.
And having said THAT I think I'll order my Trifecta tonight.
Hey Dan! Is there ANY benefit tuning on top of the 3 bar sensors or do you get the same results with or without and chalk up the cost of the stage kit to experience?