CobaltSS313

Raced a Mustang GT tonight from around a 30mph roll and pulled on him in second and third. Put about 2 cars on him. No contest.

codyss

Thats the norm with even GM Stage 2.

You must have shut down early, with the SOHC 4.6 the faster you go the more you pull.

3fo893013L

GT's are all down low, there gearing sucks for top end.

Blainestang

Fixed it for you...

codyss

The SOHC 4.6 is just a pathetic V8, an LT1 can make due with 2.73's and a 4L60E so gearing isn't the problem.

Lower gears help n the 1/4 but do not make up for the lack of power.

I am not trying **** anyone off by saying this (Helty/Blainestang) but I had a GT.

Blainestang

Well, that's not exactly apples to apples. The LT1 can make due with 2.73's because it is a pushrod, significantly larger displacement engine which means a big, fat, flat torque curve. This makes taller gearing reasonable because the flat curve means you've got power everywhere. Whereas, with the smaller displacement SOHC engine, it doesn't have that same torque curve, so you need to keep it in it's narrower powerband.

Just think if you were to throw some 2.73's in an S2000. That thing would run 16's all day long, if that. It's not because the engine is pathetic, though it isn't my cup of tea. It can be a potent motor, but you've got to gear it to take advantage of it's strong points and keep you out of its weak points.

The same goes for the LT1 and Modulars. Steep gearing doesn't matter as much for the LT1 because it's got at least decent power pretty much everywhere. The 4.6L can run similar times to an LT1, but you've got to keep it in the power. Of course, I'm talking about 99+ 4.6's because between the poor power output and the ridiculously poor gear selection, the pre-99's are disgustingly slow stock.

helty

^^^you're wasting your time with. Nothing you say will get through.

Funny that that pathetic 4.6 can run right along with an LT1 though isnt it? And thats just the lil ole PI 2V.

codyss

Helty it gets through but I just seperate fact from bullshit.

I had 2 LT1's and a 2003 GT, it may be a drivers race from a dig to the 1/4 mile mark but thats where it ends for the GT as the LT1 pulls away with ease.

If you take a up to spec LT1 and put it against a GT with equal drivers the LT1 will win everytime.

My 1996 Firebird Formula had 2.73 and shifted into 3rd at 100mph a GT was allready deep into third so gearing isn't the issue HP is.

The myth of the 99-04 GT being a 14.0 second car is pure crap.

I could go on about this all day but I won't.

cobaltR

^^^I'm not really sure you know what is fact or bullshit and I'm not going to get into another war about mustangs...etc....but I've seen plenty of stock 99-04 gt's run very low 14's all day long.

Apex

holy crap i was unaware their 4.6 was a SOHC! jesus i was gonig to buy one too... glad i didnt. what a waste of a v8!

cobaltR

so buy the cobra...its dohc...... and I wouldnt say the 4.6 sohc is a waste....there is plenty u can do to that car to make it fast.

SUKXOST

V8 or not, it's still a FORD!!! All those acronyms about what "ford" stands for didn't come around for nothing. Am I the only one who notices that the Mustang is the new civic? I owned two civics and got rid of my last one bc I was getting outnumbered and no matter what I did or how much I spent on my civic, I was still getting beat by these little rich kids with new mustangs. They are friggin everywhere! (paybacks are a bitch FORD, come get some!) They all drive around with that cocky "Look at me, I'm driving a MUSTANG!" look on their faces........and all I can think of is,"YEAH, your driving a Mustang, sorry for your loss." ha ha

helty

Good, have a happy 4th cody.

waste of a V8 huh? Yeah, I might now a few people who would beg to differ.

cobaltR

so you dont think the cobalt will be that way????? Its an econony car....people are going to buy them. When I first bought this car...no one had them....now I see them EVERYWHERE! If u dont like ford, thats your opinion and I respect that. But chevy isnt the greatest thing on the earth either bud, people hear cobalt and they think rebuilt cavy, so when u say I drive a cobalt alot of people might say, oh sorry for your loss.

CobaltSS313

i have a buddy of mine that has a 00 mustang gt with an exhaust and no cats and he ran a 14.01 @ 100 mph so low 14's are possible.

Blainestang

So, LT1's and GT's are even in the 1/4.... So, wait... LT1's run high 13's / low 14's and they're a drivers race according to YOU, yet 99-04 GT's being a 14.0 second car is a myth? Hmm...

Please, In ONE NIGHT, my friend drove a stock GT to a 14.1 with a 2.1 60' and we watched at least 3 other virtually stock GT's (wheels and mufflers, at most) go low 14's (14.3 or less) that night as well.

Also, the whole gearing argument is ridiculous. Why don't you take a look at my last post. Gearing has to be used to match the powerband. When you make good power everywhere because you've got a big displacement pushrod, tall gearing is well matched to the application. When you've got a smaller powerband, you gear accordingly. It has nothing to do with being a crappy engine. It has everything to do with properly matching the gear ratio to the power delivery and powerband.



Hmm... interesting. They must have been supercharged or driving downhill because CodySS, master of all automotive knowledge, says that's impossible... yet admits that they're a driver's race with an LT1 at the same time.



Pushrod, SOHC, DOHC... whatever... has no inherent, universal relation to performance. There are blazing fast Pushrods (C6 Z06), SOHC's (AMG Mercedes), and DOHC's (Ford GT). No one setup has a corner on the performance market. There are WAY too many variables to say, "Oh, that engine is [insert valvetrain setup], it must be [insert performance evaluation]."





Wow... your ignorance is showing.

You don't give any useful facts or information, just biased fanboy ignorance.

"Come get some" ??? Please... 14.5? A lightly modded '05 V6 Mustang would give you a run for your money.

You talk about cocky Mustang owners and you're proclaiming "Come get some" with your mid-14-second car?

Please.




I'm really a down-to-earth Mustang owner, and I have defended the Cobalt against other Mustang owners on several occasions, but some of you guys really need to get some common sense and see that you're doing the exact same thing that you despise other people for.

helty

Well said.
I need to mount a camera on the outside of my car looking in to see what this looks like.

Tofu

Not trying to add fuel to the fire but it cost me under $1500 to take my 98 GT into low 12's all motor...and anyone who knows anything about Mustangs knows how much the non-pi motors were dogs.

codyss

Stock 99-04 GT's may run low 14's but so do Cobalt SS/SC's, but that wasn't my point.

My point was all of the jackasses on other un-named MustangForums think that the 99-04 SOHC GT is a consistant 14.0 @ 100mph car and it isn't. Thats like saying a stock LS1 is a consistant 12.98 second car. Neither is a stock LT1 but with all things equal stock vs stock I will put money on the LT1 every time.

I am sorry if some here take my view of this subject the wrong way but I have had it with 99-04 GT owners talking **** about my SS/SC. They run the same 1/4 times but the SS/SC is better at everything else like top speed, braking, skidpad, etc.........

Blainestang

Hey, some people might, but I don't talk trash about Cobalts either. Like I said, I have defended them on multiple occasions on other sites. I will however talk trash to ignorant owners or owners with bad attitudes.


Maybe, but we're not talking about that, so that's a Red Herring... and it IS a driver's race between the 2 cars, and no, your average GT doesn't run 14.0@100. However, given equal drivers and conditions, the GT is a slightly faster car IN THE 1/4. How fast are the fastest Cobalts? Low 14's... 14.1 or higher basically. How fast are the fastest GT's? High 13's... 13.7+. Sure, they are pretty close, and from a roll, the Cobalt MIGHT be faster even, but from a dig in the 1/4, the FACTS say that the GT has more potential, STOCK. There's not really any debate in that considering the fastest GT times are .4 seconds faster than the fastest known Cobalts. That's all there is to it.

Both are good cars... both have their strengths and weaknesses, but don't insult everyones intelligence by pretending they're EQUAL in the 1/4 when the facts say otherwise, or throwing out Red Herrings about gearing or braking or whatever when we're talking about 1/4 mile.

When we're talking about handling or 100-0 or whatever, bring that up, but when we're talking about the 1/4, admit that the GT is slightly faster according to the facts that we have, or just say it's a driver's race, but don't try to bash the Mustang by bringing up all this other crap unnecessarily. It's doing the same thing you just said you hated:

So just hang onto those unrelated attacks. This forum would be a lot better if people would just share their experiences and the FACTS, instead of resorting to bias against other cars (which of course, they hate when people are biased against them) or unrelated attempts at bashing other people's cars. It doesn't do anyone any good.

Personal preference will always be there, but there's no reason to bash unnecessarily or skew or ignore the facts. Plenty of the members here, like you Cody, have much experience and knowledge to offer, but we need to offer it in a fair manner. One that offers this information as free of bias as possible, so as to be of the most benefit to the automotive community as a whole.

helty

*standing ovation* seriously, you hit the nail on the head with that one.

Cody, you and I have had it out over this topic about once every month or so, especially when I was new on the forum. At first some of our little spats got a little heated, but Im sure you can tell in the more recent months I do it out of jest get a little kick out of you. You obviously know your ****, having owned a mustang, Camaro and now a Cobalt. I hope you know as much as I enjoy busting your ***** and reading about your "4.6 sucks" rants, its all in good fun.

that said, your comment:
goes both ways. Surely you, if anyone realizes the how asinine some members of this board can be. Ive got thick enough skin to ignore the majority of uneducated bullshit that gets thrown around about mustangs around here. But every now and them, I, much like you, get sick of hearing about how shitty my car supposedly is.

Ive defended the Cobalt against some uneducated mustang owners, and Im sure they will be surprised at the least if they ever run into a modded and well driven ss/sc. I just hope some of the **** talkers around here run into a well driven 2V and learn the hard way as well. Funny how 99% of the "I walked a rustang" stories are from a 60mph + roll. Jesus why even race?

Mercury

I pull or hang with those year GT mustangs with only an intake.