AROON02

Was Picking Up My Exhaust, I Was Lost And Out Of No Where Comes Up Behind Me In Traffic Was A Supercharge Scion, Quik Lil Bastard I Took Off Thru Traffic For About 2-3 Mins Then Pulled Over And Asked For Directions, But They Are Quik Anyone Know The 1/4mile For Those
';/?

SSCobalt~SSZ24

i dont know but everyone says the TRD S/C kit just takes the TC from slow to just ok when it comes to power but thats just what i have heard i dont know any numbers sorry for my lack of knowledge!

Witt

Never got to see one at the track, but I post on scionlife a bit and their dynos for the TRD superchargers are around a stock SS/SC but with a pulley swap, they put down around 300whp. Definetly fun, cheap power.

ggarcia86

i think they run a 15.1 or so with just the trd supercharger, but with bolt-ons and an intercooler maybe they hit a mid 14? just supposed to have 200crank hp with trd s/c alone

Ryuu600

Edmunds wasn't impressed and compared it more to the likes of a Civic Si than the SS/SC.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...6/pageId=67940

With all the trimmings and the SC it's about $3K more than a SS/SC and it doesn't offer a LSD.

djpatrick35

Jesus! $26,500 is expensive for an entry level blown tC! I'd rather get a SS/SC and use the extra five grand for custom goodies!

Shortbus

Just with the s/c, they can dip to high 14s, with bolts-ons lower than that. Descent car with the supercharger, better off with a turbo imo.

Witt

But my only complaint is the SS/SC is expensive to get to 300whp, the tC, not so much.
Agreed.

Ryuu600

The TC needs new pistons to get that high. Plus thier SC is the epitomy of parasitic loss... just look at this setup:
http://gallery.scionzone.com/gallery...r2004/IMG_0292
http://gallery.scionzone.com/gallery...r2004/IMG_0289
http://gallery.scionzone.com/gallery...r2004/IMG_0289


That bar running across the top of the engine is the driveshaft for the supercharger. I have seen a full stock internals TC with 250whp but that was running a prototype SC pulley and a custom intake.

With that he only ran a 14.33@96.0mph with a 2.166 60ft.

The weight of a stock TC is close to that of a SS/SC at 2,970lbs.

jekqmb

There is a guy here in st.louis with a zpi turbo one and he only ran a 14.8@92....Hahaha they are slow no matter what you do to them.

Witt

Their superchargers are far more efficient than ours.

Take a look at their dyno numbers. http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=140625
A few are definetly higher than just about every SS/SC here.

Excerpt from page 2 of that thread: "This it's my 2006 5speed Super white TC with a custom turbo setup using a GT35R and it has 356whp/324wtq@16psi with stock internals using 93 octane gas." I know its not the TRD blower, but this setup can probably be done cheaper. The last post in that thread is pretty interesting as well.

N8s07SS

That is one ugly ass supercharger.

jekqmb

Those numbers suck for turbo cars and with the s/c you have to factor in their gearing sucks, they dont take good to any other mods at all.......They are just all around junk, its a camry motor with no potential. Slap the Intense stage 4-5 on our cars and watch just about any TC go down in shame.

Witt

I agree with the gearing, but disagree with them being junk. The 2AZ will take the power much better than an ecotec can. An intense stage 4/5 pushes the limits of the stock internals while running the blower into extreme inefficiencies while overspinning it. I can count quite a few guys over there with 320+whp but maybe one here (Tag turbo swap maybe?) Factor in how many people here have cracked pistons without cracking 300whp and its kinda shameful imo. Plus the TRD supercharger is a centrifugal which is generally much more efficient than a roots, dunno where you guys are assuming it isn't.

Ryuu600

Effecient at moving air at a given boost level but they have more parasitic loss due to the setup. Also their TRD setup is only about 8psi and 200hp (crank not wheel).

I'm not seeing in those posts anything about mods other than the T/C or S/C that they are running. Nothing about cooling mods, intakes, header/dp, cat-backs, or internals. I saw one person say he made like 270 with cams.

Again though you are spending a fortune to get to these levels and these are dyno numbers, not track numbers. These cars hook up worse than the 'Balt and are geared for smooth ride and economy. The SS/SC is geared for performance and, unlike the TC, offers a LSD that the TC does not.

Plus as previously stated, to get the TC with a similar set of ammenities and the SC you are spending $3-4K more than you would on a SS/SC. Take that $3-4K and drop it into the SS/SC and see which performs better.

Hell off the lot the 350z kills the SS/SC but it also costs like $10k more, let me spend that building the 'Balt and we have a whole different race on our hands. The TC MAY, and I emphasize may, have more potential but you have to spend more to get it.

Don't forget that the ECOTEC platform has been proven to be able to push over 1k hp with enough money spent.

Witt

If you read the dyno thread I posted, you'll see the list of people that have the stock TRD blower and their mods, and you see that they make more power than what they are rated for, just like the SS/SC. Just like us, they swap pulleys and make a lot more power for cheap. To make reliable power with an ecotec, you have to crack the motor open, not so with the 2AZ.

Centrifugal superchargers are more efficient than a roots at everything they do.

Ryuu600

ok I'll say this one more time.... YES THE CENTRIFUGAL IS MORE EFFICIENT BY DESIGN, HOWEVER THE TRD SETUP CREATES MORE PARASITIC LOSS DUE TO THE MOUNTING AND DRIVE SHAFT CONFIGURATION.

Ok sorry but you kept missing the point. I looked at the link and saw alot of dyno sheets and no mod lists. Their pistons can't handle much more power than ours can, they can just produce better HP numbers at lower boost pressures. Our members are cracking pistons because we have to create insane boost levels to get the same airflow as them. This is due to the mass air flow capabilities of the centrifugal SC vs. the Roots SC.

Thus the reason we are all so eagerly awaiting the twinscrew swap. The twinscrew is MUCH more efficient than the roots.

It should also be noted that the Centrifugal SC makes less power in the low rpm band than the Roots or the Twinscrew.

Witt

Unless its mounted in outerspace, a supercharger can only be driven one way, with a belt. It can be mounted in the trunk, it still takes the same power to turn it and outputs the same volume of air at a given temperature. Some of you guys are a little too fanboyish when it comes to other cars.

Ryuu600

Ok little man, yes it is driven by a belt, that belt is attached to a pulley, that pulley IS ATTACHED TO A DRIVESHAFT, which is attached to the SC. So how is adding the extra weight (although minute) not creating parasitic loss... hmm let me think... IT IS!

Oh. I am not being "fanboyish" whatever that means. I am merely stating facts and making an arguement. I am not say the TC isn't a good car and can't perform as well as, or even better, than the SS/SC. I am merely explaining the differences and similarities between the two and what it takes to make similar amounts of power.

I like the TC but I would rather spend the money to build a cheaper, yet better equipped, car. The better the platform you start with the better the building with which you finish. That is true of anything in life.

Take the $3k more than the SS/SC you spend on a TRD Supercharged TC and put it into the internals of a SS/SC and you will end up with a platform that is much more capable of making power than the stock TC and makes more power without any changes. You've spent the same amount of money and you have a better platform with which to start.

mysweetSS

still a hot car, even though it's a scion

Witt

Don't back pedal on me now! So the driveshaft's weight now makes a centrifugal supercharger have more parasitic loss than a roots? Did I understand you right, or are you back pedaling?

So, a better platform would involve having to crack the engine open to install pistons on the Balt?

Ryuu600

On the parasitic loss question, I would have to see numbers to say for sure but I would say that based on the design of that setup vs the SS/SC's, Yes.

Probably yes, but since when is a stock motor considered a great building platform in a small car. In order to make power you have to upgrade your components. The Cobalt engine will probably handle the same amount of HP and TQ as a TC engine will on stock internals but the Roots SC has to make higher boost levels to do it, putting more strain on the engine. If the SC is changed to a twin screw which can make power at lower boost levels similar to the CF design then the stock Cobalt engine could probably handle the same amount of power as the TC. The point I was trying to make was than in order to make more hp than the SS/SC, and subsequently still be slower at the track, you have to spend alot more money on the TC. Spend that same amount of money on the SS/SC, or the 2.4SS maybe even the 2.2, and you will have a better performing vehicle.

Better performance for the same or less money overall, including the price of the vehicle, isn't that what compact tuning is all about?

Witt

I think it all comes down to what setup on each car you go with. ZPI makes an awesome turbo setup for the automatic tC's that includes auto tranny mods such as strengthened tranny internals and valve body upgrades. Its a bit over 5g, but add that to the price of a stock auto tC and its not too bad for a reliable 12 second daily driver. The TRD blower is actually a Vortech unit that have been run in many different vehicles for years with great reliability. They have the aftermarket support a lot more than we do so they kind of have the upper hand in upgrades in my opinion.
I don't think either vehicle has been offered long enough to see what the long term results are after the vehicles have been upgraded and the **** beat out of them for any length of time, but they are both great values as far as tuning goes in my opinion, or I wouldn't have one of each in my garage.

AROON02

300? w/ what mods, you just said they put down ss/sc power w/ a pulley swap, deatils?

Wow Did I Start An Argument Thread Or What!!!! Calm Down Guys Lol It Kept Up For A Min I Would Took Him Im Sure Lool

8cd03gro

where is all the research and data you have collected that gives you the right to say, in a tone that leads us to beleive you think you are absolutely correct, that the centri setup on the tc is less efficient. ROOTS IS THE LEAST EFFICIENT FORM OF SUPERCHARGER. An extra, maybe 1/2 lb of rotating mass is not going to give them more parasitic loss. You are also forgetting that parasitic loss RISES as you spin the blower faster. and since their blower flows more cfm per boost, they probably have quite a bit less parasitic loss. And the whole low rpm power thing...ok, sometimes that actually plays a role in say street driving, but it only matters how much power you are making in your USABLE RPM RANGE when it comes to racing, and they are still probably making quitea bit of boost in thier entire usable rpm range. So the .1 seconds they are not near their peak boost when they are launching....that is just gonna give them better traction, nothing else. on the track turbo>centri>roots when all is said and done. Now i am not gonna get into the argument of tc s/c vs ss/sc because personally i just cant stand scion, but your info is very off here.