G85 Vs Non G85
07-20-2006, 05:23 PM
#26
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hahah reading this thread is like watching a monkey **** a football...just weird and awkward....I think some of you guys are on LSD....
LSD is Limited Slip Differential as mentioned. Both wheels are NOT locked together, this is what a "Locker" does but not LSD.
LSD is clutch operated. In a nutshell if one wheel is spinning faster then the other it will screw 2 clutchs together making the opposing wheel spin. These clutches are connected to the axles. It requires a bit of spinning for both to engage, this is why you cant feel it while you are turning since if both wheels were locked together the outter wheel will bark as it slides on the asphault around a turn, a locker will cause this. But if you peel out that is more then enough to engage the LSD.
The clutches can actually wear out but not usually under normal coniditions. Failing LSD's become open diff's. This happens alot with Jeeps with the factory LSD and then the owner takes it rock climbing alot. The clutches will burn and eventually where out. Happened to me and it was replaced with a air-locker.
Thats all there is to it. Its nothing magical. My car has one in the rear. The only time you should need it is when launching. If you a on a road course you shouldnt need it that much the tires shouldnt be sliding around that much. Oh, it helps in the snow alot too obviously...
LSD is Limited Slip Differential as mentioned. Both wheels are NOT locked together, this is what a "Locker" does but not LSD.
LSD is clutch operated. In a nutshell if one wheel is spinning faster then the other it will screw 2 clutchs together making the opposing wheel spin. These clutches are connected to the axles. It requires a bit of spinning for both to engage, this is why you cant feel it while you are turning since if both wheels were locked together the outter wheel will bark as it slides on the asphault around a turn, a locker will cause this. But if you peel out that is more then enough to engage the LSD.
The clutches can actually wear out but not usually under normal coniditions. Failing LSD's become open diff's. This happens alot with Jeeps with the factory LSD and then the owner takes it rock climbing alot. The clutches will burn and eventually where out. Happened to me and it was replaced with a air-locker.
Thats all there is to it. Its nothing magical. My car has one in the rear. The only time you should need it is when launching. If you a on a road course you shouldnt need it that much the tires shouldnt be sliding around that much. Oh, it helps in the snow alot too obviously...
07-20-2006, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CynicX
hahah reading this thread is like watching a monkey **** a football...just weird and awkward....I think some of you guys are on LSD....
LSD is Limited Slip Differential as mentioned. Both wheels are NOT locked together, this is what a "Locker" does but not LSD.
LSD is clutch operated. In a nutshell if one wheel is spinning faster then the other it will screw 2 clutchs together making the opposing wheel spin. These clutches are connected to the axles. It requires a bit of spinning for both to engage, this is why you cant feel it while you are turning since if both wheels were locked together the outter wheel will bark as it slides on the asphault around a turn, a locker will cause this. But if you peel out that is more then enough to engage the LSD.
The clutches can actually wear out but not usually under normal coniditions. Failing LSD's become open diff's. This happens alot with Jeeps with the factory LSD and then the owner takes it rock climbing alot. The clutches will burn and eventually where out. Happened to me and it was replaced with a air-locker.
Thats all there is to it. Its nothing magical. My car has one in the rear. The only time you should need it is when launching. If you a on a road course you shouldnt need it that much the tires shouldnt be sliding around that much. Oh, it helps in the snow alot too obviously...
LSD is Limited Slip Differential as mentioned. Both wheels are NOT locked together, this is what a "Locker" does but not LSD.
LSD is clutch operated. In a nutshell if one wheel is spinning faster then the other it will screw 2 clutchs together making the opposing wheel spin. These clutches are connected to the axles. It requires a bit of spinning for both to engage, this is why you cant feel it while you are turning since if both wheels were locked together the outter wheel will bark as it slides on the asphault around a turn, a locker will cause this. But if you peel out that is more then enough to engage the LSD.
The clutches can actually wear out but not usually under normal coniditions. Failing LSD's become open diff's. This happens alot with Jeeps with the factory LSD and then the owner takes it rock climbing alot. The clutches will burn and eventually where out. Happened to me and it was replaced with a air-locker.
Thats all there is to it. Its nothing magical. My car has one in the rear. The only time you should need it is when launching. If you a on a road course you shouldnt need it that much the tires shouldnt be sliding around that much. Oh, it helps in the snow alot too obviously...
07-20-2006, 08:02 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by CynicX
hahah reading this thread is like watching a monkey **** a football...just weird and awkward....I think some of you guys are on LSD....
LSD is Limited Slip Differential as mentioned. Both wheels are NOT locked together, this is what a "Locker" does but not LSD.
LSD is clutch operated. In a nutshell if one wheel is spinning faster then the other it will screw 2 clutchs together making the opposing wheel spin. These clutches are connected to the axles. It requires a bit of spinning for both to engage, this is why you cant feel it while you are turning since if both wheels were locked together the outter wheel will bark as it slides on the asphault around a turn, a locker will cause this. But if you peel out that is more then enough to engage the LSD.
The clutches can actually wear out but not usually under normal coniditions. Failing LSD's become open diff's. This happens alot with Jeeps with the factory LSD and then the owner takes it rock climbing alot. The clutches will burn and eventually where out. Happened to me and it was replaced with a air-locker.
Thats all there is to it. Its nothing magical. My car has one in the rear. The only time you should need it is when launching. If you a on a road course you shouldnt need it that much the tires shouldnt be sliding around that much. Oh, it helps in the snow alot too obviously...
LSD is Limited Slip Differential as mentioned. Both wheels are NOT locked together, this is what a "Locker" does but not LSD.
LSD is clutch operated. In a nutshell if one wheel is spinning faster then the other it will screw 2 clutchs together making the opposing wheel spin. These clutches are connected to the axles. It requires a bit of spinning for both to engage, this is why you cant feel it while you are turning since if both wheels were locked together the outter wheel will bark as it slides on the asphault around a turn, a locker will cause this. But if you peel out that is more then enough to engage the LSD.
The clutches can actually wear out but not usually under normal coniditions. Failing LSD's become open diff's. This happens alot with Jeeps with the factory LSD and then the owner takes it rock climbing alot. The clutches will burn and eventually where out. Happened to me and it was replaced with a air-locker.
Thats all there is to it. Its nothing magical. My car has one in the rear. The only time you should need it is when launching. If you a on a road course you shouldnt need it that much the tires shouldnt be sliding around that much. Oh, it helps in the snow alot too obviously...
There are no clutch plates! It is gear driven! You don't even know what the hell you are talking about and your critizing other users on the thread???
This will settle all the BS floating on this thread!
The Quaife Differential powers both drive wheels under nearly all conditions, instead of just one. With an ordinary open differential, standard on most cars, a lot of precious power is wasted during wheelspin under acceleration. This happens because the open differential shifts power to the wheel with less grip (along the path of least resistance). The Quaife, however, does just the opposite. It senses which wheel has the better grip, and biases the power to that wheel. It does this smoothly and constantly, and without ever completely removing power from the other wheel.
In drag-race style, straight-line acceleration runs, this results in a close to ideal 50/50 power split to both drive wheels, resulting in essentially twice the grip of an ordinary differential (they don't call open diffs "peglegs" for nothing).
In cornering, while accelerating out of a turn, the Quaife biases power to the outside wheel, reducing inside-wheel spin. This allows the driver to begin accelerating earlier, exiting the corner at a higher speed.
The Quaife is extremely strong and durable and since the Quaife is gear operated, it has no plates or clutches that can wear out and need costly replacement.
In drag-race style, straight-line acceleration runs, this results in a close to ideal 50/50 power split to both drive wheels, resulting in essentially twice the grip of an ordinary differential (they don't call open diffs "peglegs" for nothing).
In cornering, while accelerating out of a turn, the Quaife biases power to the outside wheel, reducing inside-wheel spin. This allows the driver to begin accelerating earlier, exiting the corner at a higher speed.
The Quaife is extremely strong and durable and since the Quaife is gear operated, it has no plates or clutches that can wear out and need costly replacement.
07-20-2006, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mi6_
There are no clutch plates! It is gear driven! You don't even know what the hell you are talking about and your critizing other users on the thread???
This will settle all the BS floating on this thread!
Source: http://www.quaifeamerica.com/differentials/diffs.htm
Or maybe if everyone just read my posts.
07-20-2006, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tofu
If I could do it all over again I would have gotten a G85 SS/SC. Mainly because I wanted to get involved in Autocross. As far as the 1320, I dunno...my SS/SC ran fine with out LSD, so it is probably something I wouldn't have considered unless I was deep into the 12's.
07-21-2006, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mi6_
There are no clutch plates! It is gear driven! You don't even know what the hell you are talking about and your critizing other users on the thread???
This will settle all the BS floating on this thread!
Source: http://www.quaifeamerica.com/differentials/diffs.htm
I'm confused...you posted a link on now a Quaife unit works. Does the G85 come with a Quaife unit? Because that is NOT LSD. Although it does the same job.
I explained how an LSD works. Soucre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_slip_differential
So your telling me the G85 is made by Quaife? BTW I do know what I'm talking about I explained how LSD works. I never specified what car. So if the G85 = Quaife then my post didnt apply...
EDIT: The SS does come with a Quaife unit. Leave it to GM to rename their parts, they successful call all their forms of differential traction control LSD's now.
mi6 is right its not a stardard clutch driven LSD. Follow his link on how it works.Side note: The Quaife "LSD" is a pretty nice unit. Generally stronger then LSD's with clutch packs and dont wear out. It used to to only come in high end cars. Then stardard in the SRT-4 in 04 I believe. I thought dodge called it a Quaife unit rather then LSD but I could be wrong...
Last edited by CynicX; 07-21-2006 at 05:37 PM.
07-21-2006, 06:33 PM
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This is how I look at it. I could have gotten a g85 ss/sc but for the 1500 I saved in not getting the g85, I bought stage 2, exhaust, pulley, etc.
I wish I had it just to say I do, but i know ill never be driving my car hard enough to need it.
Get it if you want it, but dont worry if you can't.
I wish I had it just to say I do, but i know ill never be driving my car hard enough to need it.
Get it if you want it, but dont worry if you can't.
09-13-2006, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CynicX
I'm confused...you posted a link on now a Quaife unit works. Does the G85 come with a Quaife unit? Because that is NOT LSD. Although it does the same job.
I explained how an LSD works. Soucre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_slip_differential
So your telling me the G85 is made by Quaife? BTW I do know what I'm talking about I explained how LSD works. I never specified what car. So if the G85 = Quaife then my post didnt apply...
EDIT: The SS does come with a Quaife unit. Leave it to GM to rename their parts, they successful call all their forms of differential traction control LSD's now. mi6 is right its not a stardard clutch driven LSD. Follow his link on how it works.
Side note: The Quaife "LSD" is a pretty nice unit. Generally stronger then LSD's with clutch packs and dont wear out. It used to to only come in high end cars. Then stardard in the SRT-4 in 04 I believe. I thought dodge called it a Quaife unit rather then LSD but I could be wrong...
I explained how an LSD works. Soucre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_slip_differential
So your telling me the G85 is made by Quaife? BTW I do know what I'm talking about I explained how LSD works. I never specified what car. So if the G85 = Quaife then my post didnt apply...
EDIT: The SS does come with a Quaife unit. Leave it to GM to rename their parts, they successful call all their forms of differential traction control LSD's now.
mi6 is right its not a stardard clutch driven LSD. Follow his link on how it works.Side note: The Quaife "LSD" is a pretty nice unit. Generally stronger then LSD's with clutch packs and dont wear out. It used to to only come in high end cars. Then stardard in the SRT-4 in 04 I believe. I thought dodge called it a Quaife unit rather then LSD but I could be wrong...
2nd) LSD = Limited Slip Differential. There are many different makes and types of LSD.
3rd) The "G85" package includes a Quafie LSD. The LSD is built by Quafie and installed by GM in your transmission when you order your G85 car.
09-13-2006, 04:25 PM
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Well i traded in my first cobalt with 700 miles for me new one now just to get the g85 package i ate almost 5000 dollars and it was worth every penny
get it you will love it and the great thing is there is no torque steer.
get it you will love it and the great thing is there is no torque steer.
Last edited by Gory; 09-13-2006 at 04:52 PM.
09-13-2006, 04:30 PM
#35
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G85 a must!
I have a non G85 car and got a ride in Screamin's G85..... the difference in coming out of corners is HUGE!!!!
I Auto-X / track days and kick myself in the butt daily for not getting the G85.
even better.... NO SC should be produced w/o G85!!!!
snow gonna be challenging w/o G85
I Auto-X / track days and kick myself in the butt daily for not getting the G85.
even better.... NO SC should be produced w/o G85!!!!
snow gonna be challenging w/o G85
09-14-2006, 12:20 PM
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Since starting this thread , i have purchased a COBALT with the G85 package and i'm very pleased. Everyone told me that it is worth getting for the recaros alone and they were definitely right, they are awesome. As for the LSD is is very predictable while launching and very linear without a lot of pull to one side or the other. I can definitely say it is easier to get a better lauch out of a g85 car than a non g85 car, after driving both. It is worth the money but if you are looking to save on the price of the car you are still getting an excellent, underated car if you get the non g85.
09-14-2006, 06:22 PM
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bottom line- Quaife=good
no Quaife=OK
It really depends what you want- a pretty much stock car that runs a 13 or 14? then the quaife don't really matter much. If you plan on pushing the car into the 11 or 12's then a Quaife is a must(so are custom made axles from the Driveshaft shop).
Cost of a Quaife for my Dodge is about $1,200 and most others are about the same price. Figure if you take it to a trans shop to be installed it will be about $1,000 for the whole job- take then just the trans and you should be able to get it done for $750. You can do it yourself but you need a few special tools and some knowledge- if you can set up gears it's actually pretty easy to install a Quaife.
no Quaife=OK
It really depends what you want- a pretty much stock car that runs a 13 or 14? then the quaife don't really matter much. If you plan on pushing the car into the 11 or 12's then a Quaife is a must(so are custom made axles from the Driveshaft shop).
Cost of a Quaife for my Dodge is about $1,200 and most others are about the same price. Figure if you take it to a trans shop to be installed it will be about $1,000 for the whole job- take then just the trans and you should be able to get it done for $750. You can do it yourself but you need a few special tools and some knowledge- if you can set up gears it's actually pretty easy to install a Quaife.
09-14-2006, 07:57 PM
#38
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while i dont know a huge amount about this..... i see a slight discrepency in the logic posted....
"The Quaife Differential powers both drive wheels under nearly all conditions, instead of just one. With an ordinary open differential, standard on most cars, a lot of precious power is wasted during wheelspin under acceleration. This happens because the open differential shifts power to the wheel with less grip (along the path of least resistance)."
If this is true that would mean that the second you break loose in a NON lsd car, 1 wheel will spin and continue to spin. because it would always have the least resistance.
So why is it that NON lsd Cobalts seem to be able to burn both wheels without to much issue?
"The Quaife Differential powers both drive wheels under nearly all conditions, instead of just one. With an ordinary open differential, standard on most cars, a lot of precious power is wasted during wheelspin under acceleration. This happens because the open differential shifts power to the wheel with less grip (along the path of least resistance)."
If this is true that would mean that the second you break loose in a NON lsd car, 1 wheel will spin and continue to spin. because it would always have the least resistance.
So why is it that NON lsd Cobalts seem to be able to burn both wheels without to much issue?
09-14-2006, 09:30 PM
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this is a continuing arguement on this site that I keep coming across. for some reason, it ends up being opinionated. lsd does not help in a straight line. you guys make me laugh so hard.
09-15-2006, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ralliartist
this is a continuing arguement on this site that I keep coming across. for some reason, it ends up being opinionated. lsd does not help in a straight line. you guys make me laugh so hard.
09-18-2006, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ralliartist
this is a continuing arguement on this site that I keep coming across. for some reason, it ends up being opinionated. lsd does not help in a straight line. you guys make me laugh so hard.
10-31-2006, 03:53 PM
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is the lsd an addition to the ecu, or is it a tangible mechanism in the tranny ( example of tangible mechanism being something that is metal, aluminum, whatever, not something uploaded into an ecu)
11-06-2006, 08:54 AM
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It is a mechanical piece, yes. It is made by Quaife, similar to these units.
11-08-2006, 05:01 PM
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IMO LSD is very important. I would not say I'm the best driver but I pulled off the second best stock time on this site. I honestly think it had alot to do with the LSD.
11-08-2006, 05:05 PM
#46
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idk i really dont c in buying the g85 i didnt i hate the recaros i rather my red inserts but thats IMO, but ive done burnouts with both tires spinning.
11-08-2006, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by hatrickstu
only reason i can think of that i wish i would have got it would be for the fact that not many 2005's with the package were made
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