the1&only

You are wrong. The US gets the MR. You might be thinking of the FQxxx EVOs that we don't get.

OniMirage

evo mr's have been here for a long time and no are not 400 awhp here in the states. ... back to that race what gear did you actually start in?

8cd03gro

roll racing is the weakest point for any awd car... not just turbo awd cars. AWD robs ALOT more power than fwd and a considerable amount more than rwd.

Darksun

Yeah you would think but than when you watch the AMS evo vids on youtube your like "WTF" evo's got the same amount of hp as the other cars but still whooping up on them. wheres the Drivtrain loss there. No need for me to post vids every one and there mom has seen or heard of them.

FNFAST

I think kill stories should be locked out immediately without video.


Hey I raced a c6 and smoked him...buslengths..

Lambo...same thing...smoked...

Viper...no problem...waxed him...

and I'm stock.


I think you get me point. Why would you have a passenger in your car if he isn't filming????

8cd03gro

do you have any idea how much has been put into that evo? it is putting out about the same >>>WHP<<< match it up against a rwd car with the same type of tranny, same weight, and same crank hp in a roll race and it will make that ams evo its bitch. That car is rediculous tho.

it is a fact that awd has alot more drivetrain power loss than the two other setups in the average setup.

Darksun

The reason i used that example is because at the time of those vids the ams evo was still in the 600WHP range same as all the other cars it was racing. Its wasnt like it was making 1000 WHP and they were only making 650. watch the vids they tell you what it was dynoing at at the time of the vids

8cd03gro

yea and once again that is wheel horsepower...you know AFTER the drivetrain power loss. Compare a 600 crank horsepower awd car at the same weight, with the same gearing as an equally equipped rwd car and it will get owned from a roll. You are failing to see the point here. That is why most other 300hp cars will take evo's and sti's from a roll, along with other things, but that is a major factor.

Darksun

This is tru im not saying i disagree with you but fair is fair and its WHP vs WHP no Chp Vs Whp

Darksun

can't nit pick the small details its bad enough they had to go from rolls can't say "Well i lost cause you make more crank horse power than me even thoguh or Whp Hp is the same."

cblt12

damn calm down... i didnt say that i killed anyone... i just wanted to share w/ everyone what happened when i raced my friend... you dont have to believe me and im sorry that i dont just carry around a video camera in my car at all times... o and my passenger was in the car because he happened to be w/ me, next time i will make sure i drop him off before the race...

cMw

its not really you dude but its other ppl here, like im POSITIVE 6 months ago no one was posting about beating some modded evo or sti but ever since someone posted 1 supposed kill on one they opened the flood gates saying everyone and their mother can beat one

ted5986

i guess that is what i was thinking of . . i saw this thing on speed channel about it last year and i could have sworn that he said evo mr. i guess i didnt oh well

thanks for setting my mind straight

evolve

Ill explain it for all so you know. If you have a small turbo, you sacrifice top end power(hence the lack of top end from evos and stis when stock), BUT you will have a very responsive(ie fast spool/little lag) turbo when boosting. Larger turbos on the other hand are made for top end power, BUT they arent responsive(ie LAG!!!!) as their smaller counterparts.

evolve

true, you run whatcha brung.

8cd03gro

yes, but still, compare an evo or sti with a car with the same top end power figures and all else equal except for giving the other car a rwd or fwd drivetrain and it will make the evo/sti its bitch from a roll. The turbo doesn't "limit" its top end at all, as that IS the top end power of the motor as it is, but the awd does limit its power to the ground making it weaker from a roll. What you are saying makes sense, but not in the way it is being stated imo. Look at an srt-4 for example. Fairly small turbo. Not tiny, but pretty small. Stronger from a roll than from a dig because of traction issues. Now an evo or sti, is much stronger from a dig because of 0 traction issues, but the drawback of awd is from a roll it is quite a bit more leeching than a rwd or fwd drivetrain. You are totally right in what you are saying, i just think when you say they are slower from a roll BECAUSE of their turbo, you are kinda saying it wrong. Yes you could make some monster top end with a bigger turbo, but what is taking away from the top end is the awd.

the1&only

JUST QUIT!!

All that matters from a roll is WHP in the upper RPMs, it doesn't matter if it R,A, or FWHP. The SRT-4 keeps making power up to redline. The STI and EVO's HP start to drop off in the higher RPMs when stock due to the turbo running out of breath. And then the pre 07 STIs gearing is horrible from a roll.

Darksun

You know i agree with you both but im siding 60/40 with the 1&only because once the Evo's or sti's get a bigger than stock and start getting up in 4-600 WHP that whole Drive train loss complaint doesn't seem to effect them as much. I just dont hear that complaint anymore by that point and there all for Rolls and hold there own too......

the1&only

Actually most of them turn into freeway queens when they do get up into that power range, because A) They suck at driving with that much power and B) Stuff starts breaking.

If you go on to the Subaru boards a lot of the guys with the power to run deep into the 10s are barely hitting mid 11s, so they give up and start suprising people from a roll because "everyone knows AWD sucks from a roll."

Darksun

Ha everytime i lose to an AWD drive car from a roll it hurts my soul just a little bit more than if it was RWD or FWD because i was so wraped up in the belief that since it was AWD That i should have the Advantage almost disreguarding any other factors. Its a lie people on the interweb have been force feed and grow up beliving when its not 100% true. **** some mean ass gearing alone on an AWD car will have them holding you off for a good long while.

the1&only

Yep, force fed and then they regurgitate it and can't back it up.

8cd03gro

ok how many times to i have to spell this out for you guys? WHEEL HORSEPOWER IS AFTER THE DRIVETRAIN POWER LOSS! I AM SAYING IF YOU LOOK AT THE 300 HORSEPOWER CARS ON THE MARKET THAT ARE NOT AWD, MOST OF THEM WILL RAPE STI'S AND EVOS FROM A ROLL. whp is whp, it doesn't matter what kind of drivetrain they have they are putting down the SAME power. crank horsepower on the other hand will be slightly dropped throughout the drivetrain into heat. Since there are far more components and rotating mass in an awd drivetrain, alot more power is lost before it makes it to the wheels. Case in point- the 03ish wrx's made what 227chp? they put like 170 to the wheels or something like that. that is ALOT of drivetrain power loss. Then look at my car. Puts around 185-190 to the wheels with 210chp. There are alot of different factors, but mainly it is because of less drivetrain power loss, and from a roll if gearing and weight are close enough, 15-20 whp will make a pretty decent difference. Stop talking about wheel horsepower numbers when we are discussing drivetrain power loss, it totally eliminates the point of looking at drivetrain power loss in the first place. You know what those 600whp evos are putting out that the crank? probably around 750. You know what a rwd car making 600whp is putting out at the crank? Probably around 700. from a roll with all else being equal they should run side by side, but equal out those crank numbers and BOOM rwd blows the **** out of that awd car cause it probably is putting down a good 50-60 less whp.

8cd03gro

riiiiggghhhttt because thermodynamics being on my side means nothing.

cawpin

The only part of drivetrain loss that is Thermo is in an automatic transmission. The rest is simple dynamics.

Thermodynamics involves movement of fluids, be they gas or liquid. Stop trying to sound smart.

8cd03gro

actually thermodynamics involves the relation between mechanical energy and heat. do you know WHY your driveshaft gets hot after driving for a long time? Do you know what happens to all that horsepower that you lose between your crank and your wheels? Where does it go? OHHHH IT TURNS INTO HEAT ENERGY!!!!! WOW WAIT WHAT FORM OF SCIENCE DOES THAT INVOLVE?! THERMODYNAMICS! haha stop trying to be smart yourself pal