Stage 2 vs modded EVO 9 vs stock STi
05-16-2006, 03:49 PM
#101
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Originally Posted by TheExorcist
2nd at 35.....the proof is all right in the video....obviously GM isn't going to release something that has the possibility of costing them thousands of dollars in repairs from running too lean....I was just sick of seeing all these poeple saying they can beat all these cars, so Im on a mission to see if all these "statements" are true.......
05-16-2006, 11:44 PM
#103
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This whole argument is lame. There are so many factors involved in a race, that watching some shitty hand held video with crappy lighting won't prove a damn thing.
First off, there's so much variation between dyno's, even amongst the same brand and type. In the city I dyno'd my 95 TA at 475 RWHP SAE at one location, and ended up at 489 RWHP SAE at another location, both on Dynojets. Mustang dynos build loading into their drums which will produce even lower numbers. Even then, numbers mean jack **** if they're not listed in SAE. Comparing numbers just thrown out there in someone's lame argument is retarded. Even if you could compare the numbers accurately, they're still peak numbers, who knows if the car is making that torque all the way across or if it's just making it past 5000 rpm.
Assuming the Cobalt had superior power & torque throughout the whole race there are still many reasons why it could've lost. For starters, the driver. Anyone who has driven along side of an automatic and watched their car fall behind during a shift knows how important quick shifts are in a race. A bad driver, or a shorter throw shifter, or a driver that is power shifting are all big factors in the race.
The next big factor is gearing. Different engines make power in different RPM ranges. When comparing a FWD car to an AWD car this factor cannot be overlooked. The cams in AWD cars are different, and are designed to make torque that better suits an AWD car, so the power bands will not match exactly.
Another factor is aerodynamics. The STI was following right beside the EVO, the EVO is essentially punching a big whole in the air for the STI, meaning it has way less drag on the car than the cobalt. In racing this effect is known as drafting.
Other conditions, like a bumpy road would give an advantage to the AWD, or a slight bend in the road towards the left would give the STI a shorter path than the cobalt.
I can think of a hundred different reasons that would also affect the outcome. Like tire alignment, weight of the driver, additional weight in the car, tire temperature, tire pressure, suspension stiffness, etc.
Bottom line is this, if there's something seriously wrong with your car you're not going to hang with the STI. If you're a hair slower than you should be it's quite possible some of the small things are off, like what I already listed above. I also think it's stupid to do a one size fits all tune for stage 2. There's a good chance you'll benefit greatly from one of those MAF translator's that kick in when you're in PE mode, and a wide band o2.
First off, there's so much variation between dyno's, even amongst the same brand and type. In the city I dyno'd my 95 TA at 475 RWHP SAE at one location, and ended up at 489 RWHP SAE at another location, both on Dynojets. Mustang dynos build loading into their drums which will produce even lower numbers. Even then, numbers mean jack **** if they're not listed in SAE. Comparing numbers just thrown out there in someone's lame argument is retarded. Even if you could compare the numbers accurately, they're still peak numbers, who knows if the car is making that torque all the way across or if it's just making it past 5000 rpm.
Assuming the Cobalt had superior power & torque throughout the whole race there are still many reasons why it could've lost. For starters, the driver. Anyone who has driven along side of an automatic and watched their car fall behind during a shift knows how important quick shifts are in a race. A bad driver, or a shorter throw shifter, or a driver that is power shifting are all big factors in the race.
The next big factor is gearing. Different engines make power in different RPM ranges. When comparing a FWD car to an AWD car this factor cannot be overlooked. The cams in AWD cars are different, and are designed to make torque that better suits an AWD car, so the power bands will not match exactly.
Another factor is aerodynamics. The STI was following right beside the EVO, the EVO is essentially punching a big whole in the air for the STI, meaning it has way less drag on the car than the cobalt. In racing this effect is known as drafting.
Other conditions, like a bumpy road would give an advantage to the AWD, or a slight bend in the road towards the left would give the STI a shorter path than the cobalt.
I can think of a hundred different reasons that would also affect the outcome. Like tire alignment, weight of the driver, additional weight in the car, tire temperature, tire pressure, suspension stiffness, etc.
Bottom line is this, if there's something seriously wrong with your car you're not going to hang with the STI. If you're a hair slower than you should be it's quite possible some of the small things are off, like what I already listed above. I also think it's stupid to do a one size fits all tune for stage 2. There's a good chance you'll benefit greatly from one of those MAF translator's that kick in when you're in PE mode, and a wide band o2.
05-17-2006, 12:33 AM
#104
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isnt power-shifting in the Cobalt good? does it matter per car? i forget what power-shifting is too. ok. when you go from 2nd to third do you just instantly clutch then 2nd to 3rd then instantly drop the clutch. do you not instantly but fairly quickly let go of the clutch which already in third?
05-17-2006, 01:33 AM
#106
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is that even possible on the cobalts, i've tried things like that... lead to me being stuck in nuetral at redline.. how many people here can power shift there cobalt with ease?
Also if you cant power shift, is a good way to race by just shifting gears and dropping the clutch as fast as you can. also theres a teqnique i read about its when you keep your foot on the gas all the way down as you are shifting, i've been trying that too and that can be hard if not done REALLY FKIN fast...
Also if you cant power shift, is a good way to race by just shifting gears and dropping the clutch as fast as you can. also theres a teqnique i read about its when you keep your foot on the gas all the way down as you are shifting, i've been trying that too and that can be hard if not done REALLY FKIN fast...
05-17-2006, 01:57 AM
#107
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Originally Posted by MasterTech
Another factor is aerodynamics. The STI was following right beside the EVO, the EVO is essentially punching a big whole in the air for the STI, meaning it has way less drag on the car than the cobalt. In racing this effect is known as drafting.
05-17-2006, 04:38 AM
#109
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Originally Posted by articzap
power shifitin is full throatle no clutch slam to next gear
05-17-2006, 10:53 AM
#110
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if you can shift gears at high rpm with no clutch you deserve a medal or new tranny. I can't imagine how hard on it that would be. Simply crazy though this is not the first I had heard of someone mentioning this. I am too afraid to try something like that.
05-17-2006, 11:09 AM
#111
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Originally Posted by MasterTech
This whole argument is lame. There are so many factors involved in a race, that watching some shitty hand held video with crappy lighting won't prove a damn thing.
First off, there's so much variation between dyno's, even amongst the same brand and type. In the city I dyno'd my 95 TA at 475 RWHP SAE at one location, and ended up at 489 RWHP SAE at another location, both on Dynojets. Mustang dynos build loading into their drums which will produce even lower numbers. Even then, numbers mean jack **** if they're not listed in SAE. Comparing numbers just thrown out there in someone's lame argument is retarded. Even if you could compare the numbers accurately, they're still peak numbers, who knows if the car is making that torque all the way across or if it's just making it past 5000 rpm.
Assuming the Cobalt had superior power & torque throughout the whole race there are still many reasons why it could've lost. For starters, the driver. Anyone who has driven along side of an automatic and watched their car fall behind during a shift knows how important quick shifts are in a race. A bad driver, or a shorter throw shifter, or a driver that is power shifting are all big factors in the race.
The next big factor is gearing. Different engines make power in different RPM ranges. When comparing a FWD car to an AWD car this factor cannot be overlooked. The cams in AWD cars are different, and are designed to make torque that better suits an AWD car, so the power bands will not match exactly.
Another factor is aerodynamics. The STI was following right beside the EVO, the EVO is essentially punching a big whole in the air for the STI, meaning it has way less drag on the car than the cobalt. In racing this effect is known as drafting.
Other conditions, like a bumpy road would give an advantage to the AWD, or a slight bend in the road towards the left would give the STI a shorter path than the cobalt.
I can think of a hundred different reasons that would also affect the outcome. Like tire alignment, weight of the driver, additional weight in the car, tire temperature, tire pressure, suspension stiffness, etc.
Bottom line is this, if there's something seriously wrong with your car you're not going to hang with the STI. If you're a hair slower than you should be it's quite possible some of the small things are off, like what I already listed above. I also think it's stupid to do a one size fits all tune for stage 2. There's a good chance you'll benefit greatly from one of those MAF translator's that kick in when you're in PE mode, and a wide band o2.
First off, there's so much variation between dyno's, even amongst the same brand and type. In the city I dyno'd my 95 TA at 475 RWHP SAE at one location, and ended up at 489 RWHP SAE at another location, both on Dynojets. Mustang dynos build loading into their drums which will produce even lower numbers. Even then, numbers mean jack **** if they're not listed in SAE. Comparing numbers just thrown out there in someone's lame argument is retarded. Even if you could compare the numbers accurately, they're still peak numbers, who knows if the car is making that torque all the way across or if it's just making it past 5000 rpm.
Assuming the Cobalt had superior power & torque throughout the whole race there are still many reasons why it could've lost. For starters, the driver. Anyone who has driven along side of an automatic and watched their car fall behind during a shift knows how important quick shifts are in a race. A bad driver, or a shorter throw shifter, or a driver that is power shifting are all big factors in the race.
The next big factor is gearing. Different engines make power in different RPM ranges. When comparing a FWD car to an AWD car this factor cannot be overlooked. The cams in AWD cars are different, and are designed to make torque that better suits an AWD car, so the power bands will not match exactly.
Another factor is aerodynamics. The STI was following right beside the EVO, the EVO is essentially punching a big whole in the air for the STI, meaning it has way less drag on the car than the cobalt. In racing this effect is known as drafting.
Other conditions, like a bumpy road would give an advantage to the AWD, or a slight bend in the road towards the left would give the STI a shorter path than the cobalt.
I can think of a hundred different reasons that would also affect the outcome. Like tire alignment, weight of the driver, additional weight in the car, tire temperature, tire pressure, suspension stiffness, etc.
Bottom line is this, if there's something seriously wrong with your car you're not going to hang with the STI. If you're a hair slower than you should be it's quite possible some of the small things are off, like what I already listed above. I also think it's stupid to do a one size fits all tune for stage 2. There's a good chance you'll benefit greatly from one of those MAF translator's that kick in when you're in PE mode, and a wide band o2.
05-17-2006, 11:15 AM
#112
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Originally Posted by 280Z1977
Powershifting is gas pedal all the way to the floor, stab clutch, shift, let out clutch, with gas still all the way to the floor.
05-18-2006, 12:40 AM
#115
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Originally Posted by ralliartist
ok, while everything you said matches up, that's really getting down to the nitty gritty. the FACT is, the stg 2 ss didn't pull the stock STI. they were even.
Originally Posted by MasterTech
Bottom line is this, if there's something seriously wrong with your car you're not going to hang with the STI. If you're a hair slower than you should be it's quite possible some of the small things are off, like what I already listed above. I also think it's stupid to do a one size fits all tune for stage 2. There's a good chance you'll benefit greatly from one of those MAF translator's that kick in when you're in PE mode, and a wide band o2.
However, to clear up some confusion, power shifting is not shifting without a clutch. It means leaving your foot on the floor while shifting. The rpms will go up and when you let out the clutch the car will lurch forward a bit. It's very hard on transmissions and simply isn't worth doing... but, that's really a matter of opinion and I see lots of guys doing it. Really, it only takes one broken transmission to teach you the lesson. I broke my T56 doing a powershift to 5th and that was not a happy day for me. Even doing all the labour myself I still ended up spending several hundred bucks on new parts.
Shifting without the clutch is something entirely different and is definitely not recommended on transmissions with helix gears and synchronizers. Even on the track when I'm driving with a straight cut gear box I don't do it. It will upset the balance of the car as you're shifting, which is almost always at the entrance or exit of a turn. To properly do it you have to release the gas pedal to take torque off of the gears and then pull it out of gear and push it into the right gear when the RPMs fall/rev to match the speed of the gear.
There are a lot of issues with this. First, unless you're crazy good at it you're going to miss shifts. Which is way, way, way, worse than anything you can do. If you're going in to a corner and you miss a shift you're screwed. You can't shift in the middle of the turn or you'll suffer bad trail-clutch oversteer. Which means you have to wait until after your apex to start putting power to the road again.
Second, it's kind of slow. In most cases you have to either wait for the RPMs to fall or for the RPMs to go up as you rev the engine. If you shift with the clutch there is zero waiting time. With a sequential transmission and a fast reving engine it may be possible to argue that it's better to shift this way. But that's really a whole different story that applies to cars in a totally different league.
Last, it upsets the balance of the car. When you release the throttle to pull it out of gear you're unloading the rear suspension, and then when you put it back into gear you're reloading the rear. This happens more so on RWD cars, but still on FWD cars too. This will make for an unpredictable car in the turn. It will occur even if you use the clutch, but the difference being that when you're using the clutch you can usually out-run the suspension by shifting quickly. Stricly speaking I'm talking about a turn that you'll be on the throttle for. Naturally what method you use to shift in a turn that you're breaking for is totally irrelevant.
05-18-2006, 01:11 AM
#116
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you should have walked the STI, with my stock SRT i walk them all the time....atleast a car or two...
The evo 9 **** no one is touching that...best bang for the buck...i dynoed with a friend who had intake and exhaust on his 9 and put down 300awhp corrected....
The evo 9 **** no one is touching that...best bang for the buck...i dynoed with a friend who had intake and exhaust on his 9 and put down 300awhp corrected....
05-18-2006, 02:30 AM
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After seeing what he has done to his EVO 9, and how much I've already dumped into this cobalt, Im seriously considering selling the cobalt for what I owe on it and buying an EVO. Who cares about the 4 doors, they are ******* awesome cars and are WELL worth the 30k they cost.....If you think about what I've spent on the car+the cost of the car I could have bought an EVO already.......so....anyone want to buy a cobalt for about 19k?? lol
05-18-2006, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by TheExorcist
After seeing what he has done to his EVO 9, and how much I've already dumped into this cobalt, Im seriously considering selling the cobalt for what I owe on it and buying an EVO. Who cares about the 4 doors, they are ******* awesome cars and are WELL worth the 30k they cost.....If you think about what I've spent on the car+the cost of the car I could have bought an EVO already.......so....anyone want to buy a cobalt for about 19k?? lol
05-18-2006, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by TheExorcist
After seeing what he has done to his EVO 9, and how much I've already dumped into this cobalt, Im seriously considering selling the cobalt for what I owe on it and buying an EVO. Who cares about the 4 doors, they are ******* awesome cars and are WELL worth the 30k they cost.....If you think about what I've spent on the car+the cost of the car I could have bought an EVO already.......so....anyone want to buy a cobalt for about 19k?? lol
05-18-2006, 08:47 AM
#120
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I dont understand why you guys have this car and not an EVO if your looking for real power. I mean ****! I would of jumped on an EVO if there was a market for them here.
05-18-2006, 11:15 AM
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yeah I must say i wanted an evo8 as well and after having purchased my ss i realized i coulda easily pulled it off but whatever it's ok. i love my car and would not trade it for another unless the other was new and not costing me a dime.
Last edited by OniMirage; 05-18-2006 at 03:27 PM.
05-18-2006, 12:39 PM
#123
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well at the time....I couldnt afford a $500+ payment and Insurance, but now that Im making a little more, an EVO is looking like the way to go.....I'd rock that **** in the winter too.....but the new 9 MR's are over $600 a month....for that amount I'd rather buy a vette......who knows....
05-18-2006, 01:46 PM
#125
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wtf? evo9?!?
the cobalt hung pretty tight with the sti, and thoroughly impressed me. the whine coming out of that supercharger made me giggle, it sounded very, very good.
:tup: to good runs
we'll go from a dig next time so I can try out my 2-stage....
the cobalt hung pretty tight with the sti, and thoroughly impressed me. the whine coming out of that supercharger made me giggle, it sounded very, very good.
:tup: to good runs
we'll go from a dig next time so I can try out my 2-stage....