Word to the wise... Do not try and race an Evo VIII!
01-31-2006, 02:23 PM
#151
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Originally Posted by wasey13
The GTO has 400hp and can't beat and STI or EVO because is has trouble hooking Chevy might mess up and do the same with Camaro.
We will see though, especially since the EVO X is coming out next year with 300(+)hp and the STI will be redone for 2008.
And how do you know how fast a car will be before it is even built??
We will see though, especially since the EVO X is coming out next year with 300(+)hp and the STI will be redone for 2008.
And how do you know how fast a car will be before it is even built??
Don't know what you are talking about, my SISTER has a 2000 camaro ss 325hp and my friends STI can't beat it. So how do you think that a 400hp gto would loose to an STI.
01-31-2006, 02:35 PM
#152
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Originally Posted by wasey13
Your Corvette for example. 400hp f-bodies and mustangs/cobras don't have the same amount of problems that GTOs have. I know it is almost completely due to the IRS as opposed to SRA, but still my point was that it would be a mistake if they didn't put a solid axle in the Camaro like they should have done in GTO. IRS can be made to hook really well the 2nd fastest stock IRS C4 was here and it hooked but that was with GIANT slicks. 
You are mixing IRS and Solid axle when you mention F-Bodys, but since you brought it up, I'll share my experiences with both LS1 F-Body and Y-Body cars.
With my previous owned 2000 LS1 SS, my best launch with stock tires was 1.910 and with my current Vette, my best is 1.920 with stock tires and if you visit any of the GTO forums, you'll see that many are in 1.9xx 60' time range.
As for wheelhop issues, I also had that with my LS1 SS until I added LCAs. I have wheelhop issue with my Vette as well, just not as much. Yes, GTO has a wheelhop problems, but then so does Cobras and many other cars.
So you see, I don't believe GTO has much MORE of launching issues than other high performance cars.
01-31-2006, 03:25 PM
#153
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I just read a few things on this page, not the whole thread... and had a few observations.
1. GTO's and Cobra's (03-04) have IRS. Generally, both setups are inferior to Solid Axle with regard to drag racing.
2. Anyone who thinks that 2.0L engines with HUGE turbo's don't have turbo lag is living in a dream world where people talk about "double-clutching," "NOS," and "living their lives one quarter mile at a time."
3. An STi is not faster than a LS2 GTO. Both cars are capable of high 12's / low 13's with great/good driving, but the GTO will trap 110 to the STi's 104.
1. GTO's and Cobra's (03-04) have IRS. Generally, both setups are inferior to Solid Axle with regard to drag racing.
2. Anyone who thinks that 2.0L engines with HUGE turbo's don't have turbo lag is living in a dream world where people talk about "double-clutching," "NOS," and "living their lives one quarter mile at a time."
3. An STi is not faster than a LS2 GTO. Both cars are capable of high 12's / low 13's with great/good driving, but the GTO will trap 110 to the STi's 104.
01-31-2006, 05:32 PM
#154
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Originally Posted by wesmanw02
Obviously it does, because its got an IRS setup. However its nothing that a good driver can't learn to work around.
Delusional?? Why?? Because I stated the fact that a 6.0 400HP V8 GTO will walk all over a 4-door turbo lagging 4-banger with 130 less HP?? If anyone is "delusional" its you
Yea, actually I do. They tested one on Top Gear and it got walked by a rental econo car from a roll in 5th gear. It also had a terrible turn radius, crappy interior, useless clutch, and enough turbo lag to make the car miserable to drive at low speeds. Sounds like an awesome car
Delusional?? Why?? Because I stated the fact that a 6.0 400HP V8 GTO will walk all over a 4-door turbo lagging 4-banger with 130 less HP?? If anyone is "delusional" its you
Yea, actually I do. They tested one on Top Gear and it got walked by a rental econo car from a roll in 5th gear. It also had a terrible turn radius, crappy interior, useless clutch, and enough turbo lag to make the car miserable to drive at low speeds. Sounds like an awesome car
01-31-2006, 05:38 PM
#155
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Originally Posted by 03EBZ06
Oh, contrary to your belief, Vettes and Cobras do has similar issues with GTOs, if there is more of issues with GTO, it would be due to smaller tires, otherwise, launching issues are very close, in fact, 03/04 Cobrs IRS are very weak and have more problems than GM IRS.
You are mixing IRS and Solid axle when you mention F-Bodys, but since you brought it up, I'll share my experiences with both LS1 F-Body and Y-Body cars.
With my previous owned 2000 LS1 SS, my best launch with stock tires was 1.910 and with my current Vette, my best is 1.920 with stock tires and if you visit any of the GTO forums, you'll see that many are in 1.9xx 60' time range.
As for wheelhop issues, I also had that with my LS1 SS until I added LCAs. I have wheelhop issue with my Vette as well, just not as much. Yes, GTO has a wheelhop problems, but then so does Cobras and many other cars.
So you see, I don't believe GTO has much MORE of launching issues than other high performance cars.
You are mixing IRS and Solid axle when you mention F-Bodys, but since you brought it up, I'll share my experiences with both LS1 F-Body and Y-Body cars.
With my previous owned 2000 LS1 SS, my best launch with stock tires was 1.910 and with my current Vette, my best is 1.920 with stock tires and if you visit any of the GTO forums, you'll see that many are in 1.9xx 60' time range.
As for wheelhop issues, I also had that with my LS1 SS until I added LCAs. I have wheelhop issue with my Vette as well, just not as much. Yes, GTO has a wheelhop problems, but then so does Cobras and many other cars.
So you see, I don't believe GTO has much MORE of launching issues than other high performance cars.
01-31-2006, 05:46 PM
#156
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Originally Posted by Blainestang
I just read a few things on this page, not the whole thread... and had a few observations.
1. GTO's and Cobra's (03-04) have IRS. Generally, both setups are inferior to Solid Axle with regard to drag racing.
2. Anyone who thinks that 2.0L engines with HUGE turbo's don't have turbo lag is living in a dream world where people talk about "double-clutching," "NOS," and "living their lives one quarter mile at a time."
3. An STi is not faster than a LS2 GTO. Both cars are capable of high 12's / low 13's with great/good driving, but the GTO will trap 110 to the STi's 104.
1. GTO's and Cobra's (03-04) have IRS. Generally, both setups are inferior to Solid Axle with regard to drag racing.
2. Anyone who thinks that 2.0L engines with HUGE turbo's don't have turbo lag is living in a dream world where people talk about "double-clutching," "NOS," and "living their lives one quarter mile at a time."
3. An STi is not faster than a LS2 GTO. Both cars are capable of high 12's / low 13's with great/good driving, but the GTO will trap 110 to the STi's 104.
2. Lag- like how my car makes full boost around 3100-3200 and I launch around 4500 and my RPMS never go below 6000 after that. Is that the lag you are talking about? I have 2.5l and EVOS with their 2.0l and "HUGE" turbo's do the same exact thing. Lag is non-existent when drag racing either one of them unless the person doesn't know how to drive.
3. I never said an STI is faster, but a GTO is never going to just walk away from it like its tied to a fat kid. And in your oppinion which ones run low 13s, HIGH 12s more consistently(often) the STI or the GTO???
01-31-2006, 05:48 PM
#157
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Originally Posted by BlAckOnBLaCK
Don't know what you are talking about, my SISTER has a 2000 camaro ss 325hp and my friends STI can't beat it. So how do you think that a 400hp gto would loose to an STI.
01-31-2006, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by wasey13
1. covered.
2. Lag- like how my car makes full boost around 3100-3200 and I launch around 4500 and my RPMS never go below 6000 after that. Is that the lag you are talking about? I have 2.5l and EVOS with their 2.0l and "HUGE" turbo's do the same exact thing. Lag is non-existent when drag racing either one of them unless the person doesn't know how to drive.
3. I never said an STI is faster, but a GTO is never going to just walk away from it like its tied to a fat kid. And in your oppinion which ones run low 13s, HIGH 12s more consistently(often) the STI or the GTO???
2. Lag- like how my car makes full boost around 3100-3200 and I launch around 4500 and my RPMS never go below 6000 after that. Is that the lag you are talking about? I have 2.5l and EVOS with their 2.0l and "HUGE" turbo's do the same exact thing. Lag is non-existent when drag racing either one of them unless the person doesn't know how to drive.
3. I never said an STI is faster, but a GTO is never going to just walk away from it like its tied to a fat kid. And in your oppinion which ones run low 13s, HIGH 12s more consistently(often) the STI or the GTO???
I would say neither are very likely to run high 12's. Given equal driver's they will be close in the 1/4. From a roll, the GTO WILL walk away from an STi. ~7mph is a LOT of trap speed. That only makes sense. If the STi is SO SUPERIOR at the launch, then the GTO's gotta pull pretty hard to make up the difference by the end of the 1/4.
01-31-2006, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Blainestang
I realize that one rarely drops out of boost when racing a car like the FQ, but if you ever DO drop out, you'll be there for a while, because the turbo lag is pretty bad. That was my point.
I would say neither are very likely to run high 12's. Given equal driver's they will be close in the 1/4. From a roll, the GTO WILL walk away from an STi. ~7mph is a LOT of trap speed. That only makes sense. If the STi is SO SUPERIOR at the launch, then the GTO's gotta pull pretty hard to make up the difference by the end of the 1/4.
I would say neither are very likely to run high 12's. Given equal driver's they will be close in the 1/4. From a roll, the GTO WILL walk away from an STi. ~7mph is a LOT of trap speed. That only makes sense. If the STi is SO SUPERIOR at the launch, then the GTO's gotta pull pretty hard to make up the difference by the end of the 1/4.
That was my point, they are very close in quarter times it is not an ass whoopin as Wesman suggests. And once again roll racing is dumb, you will never see me say, 'This car might lose from a dig but it will own all from a roll.', that is when most "street racing" accidents happen.
01-31-2006, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by wesmanw02
Delusional?? Why?? Because I stated the fact that a 6.0 400HP V8 GTO will walk all over a 4-door turbo lagging 4-banger with 130 less HP?? If anyone is "delusional" its you
I would say your delusional also, I have no problem's beating GTO's at my local track or on the road. If both cars have good driver in them the STi will walk the GTO to 80mph beat it to 100mph and then I'm stopping.(ie: not going past 100mph here, I like my life)
01-31-2006, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by tomt5078
I would say your delusional also, I have no problem's beating GTO's at my local track or on the road. If both cars have good driver in them the STi will walk the GTO to 80mph beat it to 100mph and then I'm stopping.(ie: not going past 100mph here, I like my life)
Who cares..the GTO is a cooler car
Couldn't resist sorry.
01-31-2006, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by tomt5078
I would say your delusional also, I have no problem's beating GTO's at my local track or on the road. If both cars have good driver in them the STi will walk the GTO to 80mph beat it to 100mph and then I'm stopping.(ie: not going past 100mph here, I like my life)
A large part of the Evo and STi's percieved speed is nothing more than an illusion. With a normal launch, neither car stands out as anything special. Launch either car normally, and they pull mid 6's in 0-60 and low 14 1/4 miles. Of course thats average for a 3200lb 4 door with 230-240WHP. Also look at the 1/4 mile trap speeds, 101MPH?? Stock Cobalt SS S/C's are trapping at 99MPH, not to mention the GTO which traps at 108MPH. And you think you can walk past a GTO to 100MPH?? You must be kidding, next time you race one make sure the other driver has a license first
01-31-2006, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by wesmanw02
Man you and Wasey won't give up with Evo/Sti ranting will you. You guys need to come to the realization that not everybody thinks they are the awesome cars you like to make them out to be, nor are they nearly as fast as you'd like to think.
A large part of the Evo and STi's percieved speed is nothing more than an illusion. With a normal launch, neither car stands out as anything special. Launch either car normally, and they pull mid 6's in 0-60 and low 14 1/4 miles. Of course thats average for a 3200lb 4 door with 230-240WHP. Also look at the 1/4 mile trap speeds, 101MPH?? Stock Cobalt SS S/C's are trapping at 99MPH, not to mention the GTO which traps at 108MPH. And you think you can walk past a GTO to 100MPH?? You must be kidding, next time you race one make sure the other driver has a license first
A large part of the Evo and STi's percieved speed is nothing more than an illusion. With a normal launch, neither car stands out as anything special. Launch either car normally, and they pull mid 6's in 0-60 and low 14 1/4 miles. Of course thats average for a 3200lb 4 door with 230-240WHP. Also look at the 1/4 mile trap speeds, 101MPH?? Stock Cobalt SS S/C's are trapping at 99MPH, not to mention the GTO which traps at 108MPH. And you think you can walk past a GTO to 100MPH?? You must be kidding, next time you race one make sure the other driver has a license first
01-31-2006, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by wasey13
No, he said he could get to 100 from 0 before the GTO. 101mph trap??? Most trap 104-106. With a normal launch the GTO becomes a mid 14 to 15 second car, what is your point????
You must be on drugs of you seriously think the GTO is a "mid 14 to 15 second car" under any circumstances. You can launch the car from idle and it will still pull a low 14. Anything more than 2500RPM will smoke the tires off of it anyway, launch an Evo at 2500 and it would probably stall
. The GTO's 5-60 MPH time is 5.1 seconds - thats a full second and a half faster than an STi or Evo. I suppose you'll have some bullshit excuse to explain how thats wrong too I guess though
01-31-2006, 07:15 PM
#166
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Originally Posted by wasey13
One thing though, how consistent were/are your 1.9s in your Camaro and Corvette, compared to the GTO?
With Z06, I can cut 1.920 - 1.950 range probably 3 out of 4 launches.
I can't say for sure since I don't own a GTO, but being member of couple of GTO websites for awhile, it appears that some people who can drive can cut 1.9xx in a similar manner as I could with my Vette.
I will say this though, it does take pretty good driver with track experience to get in 1.9xx 60' time with a IRS car, moreso than solid axle cars based on my personal experiences with both type of cars (not saying I'm a great driver, just experienced).
Keep in mind that I've ownen LS1 SS for 4 years and my Vette for about 15 months so I've had more time to run my SS on the track.
Edit: If you visit GTO forums, you'll see there are many 05 GTOs trapping 108 - 110 mph.
01-31-2006, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by wesmanw02
Ok, fine. So he can sprint off the line and reach 100MPH a few tenths of a second faster than GTO. Now theres something to brag about. Too bad he gets walked like he's going backwards as soon at the Goat catches up.
You must be on drugs of you seriously think the GTO is a "mid 14 to 15 second car" under any circumstances. You can launch the car from idle and it will still pull a low 14. Anything more than 2500RPM will smoke the tires off of it anyway, launch an Evo at 2500 and it would probably stall . The GTO's 5-60 MPH time is 5.1 seconds - thats a full second and a half faster than an STi or Evo. I suppose you'll have some bullshit excuse to explain how thats wrong too I guess though
You must be on drugs of you seriously think the GTO is a "mid 14 to 15 second car" under any circumstances. You can launch the car from idle and it will still pull a low 14. Anything more than 2500RPM will smoke the tires off of it anyway, launch an Evo at 2500 and it would probably stall
. The GTO's 5-60 MPH time is 5.1 seconds - thats a full second and a half faster than an STi or Evo. I suppose you'll have some bullshit excuse to explain how thats wrong too I guess though
01-31-2006, 07:36 PM
#168
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Originally Posted by wasey13
Who races from 5-60mph????? You are grasping at straws. I have seen a few LS2 GTOs Autos run consitently between 14.5 and 15.3. Didn't say they were good drivers or the fastest model of GTO, but still it's the same thing as you saying, "when an EVO/STI launches normal, blah blah blah.".
I honestly couldn't care less "what you seen", for all we know you're making it up anyway. Bottom line is that the GTO is faster than an Evo or STi, both drivers being equal. How do you figure that a car with 130 less WHP is going to beat the GTO?? Like I said, the Evo and STi can only hang with the GTO in the 1/4 with a hard launch, and after 100MPH they get walked anyway.
01-31-2006, 07:48 PM
#169
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Originally Posted by wesmanw02
I didn't say anybody races from 5-60MPH. I was merely demonstrating that the GTO doesn't need a hard launch to beat an STi, but the STi needs a 6000RPM clutch drop to hang with a GTO in the 1/4.
I honestly couldn't care less "what you seen", for all we know you're making it up anyway. Bottom line is that the GTO is faster than an Evo or STi, both drivers being equal. How do you figure that a car with 130 less WHP is going to beat the GTO?? Like I said, the Evo and STi can only hang with the GTO in the 1/4 with a hard launch, and after 100MPH they get walked anyway.
I honestly couldn't care less "what you seen", for all we know you're making it up anyway. Bottom line is that the GTO is faster than an Evo or STi, both drivers being equal. How do you figure that a car with 130 less WHP is going to beat the GTO?? Like I said, the Evo and STi can only hang with the GTO in the 1/4 with a hard launch, and after 100MPH they get walked anyway.
01-31-2006, 07:58 PM
#170
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Originally Posted by wasey13
I have also said this before, it does not take a 6000rpm clutch drop to cut a 1.7-1.8 60' in an STI. More straw grasping.
You just keep your ricer mentality that your 4-banger sedan can beat 400HP Muscle cars
02-01-2006, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by wasey13
How many FQs have you driven or even seen driven??
That was my point, they are very close in quarter times it is not an ass whoopin as Wesman suggests. And once again roll racing is dumb, you will never see me say, 'This car might lose from a dig but it will own all from a roll.', that is when most "street racing" accidents happen.
That was my point, they are very close in quarter times it is not an ass whoopin as Wesman suggests. And once again roll racing is dumb, you will never see me say, 'This car might lose from a dig but it will own all from a roll.', that is when most "street racing" accidents happen.
My point is merely that a car like the FQ has significant turbo lag if you fall out of boost. That is a fact. No red herring like "how many FQ's have you driven" changes that fact.
Secondly, yes Evo's, STi's, and GTO's are close in the 1/4. My second point was that you can't just base a cars capability SOLELY on 1/4. If that were the case, every single performance car would be AWD. Fact is, from ANY roll, the GTO should walk away from an STi or Evo. Period.
02-01-2006, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by tomt5078
ALL WHEEL DRIVE
02-02-2006, 12:19 AM
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Blaine and Wesman, as soon as the N.R.R.A. (National Roll Racing Association) is started I will challenge you both to a roll race, in both of my cars. Until then STFU about roll racing. It = the ghey.
Also Blaine I wasn't questioning your knowledge, I was just curious if you had driven any FQs to see if you had any 1st hand experience on their "terrible lag". Oh and do you think a GTO can outperform an STI or EVO in anything else?? Breaking? Nope. Slalom speed? Doubt it. Skid pad? Maybe. Rally? NEVER!:P: Road Course? Maybe, again. 0-60? Nope. 0-100-0? Nope
Also Blaine I wasn't questioning your knowledge, I was just curious if you had driven any FQs to see if you had any 1st hand experience on their "terrible lag". Oh and do you think a GTO can outperform an STI or EVO in anything else?? Breaking? Nope. Slalom speed? Doubt it. Skid pad? Maybe. Rally? NEVER!:P: Road Course? Maybe, again. 0-60? Nope. 0-100-0? Nope