rchiwawa

For what its worth some thoughts on my 4th set of tires for the Cobalt SS/tc the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric All Seasons:

Cornering wet or dry it infinitely better than the Continental Extreme Contact DWS

Similar dry launching compared the immediately outgoing ContiSportContact2 when they were new and slightly better than the Eagle GT memory in this cold of conditions

Much nicer, smoother break of traction taking off wet, shorter loss with similar throttle input vs any of the aforementioned and very sweet resync with the road. Understersteers less with more throttle input or fast through a corner wet or dry very smooth, predictable, and responsive action.

Measured by car accelerometer and on the phone's it's holding similar lateral g level wet and dry through very commonly driven corners for me to the CSC dry and superior to everything else wet.

Very relaxed feel in comparison to the Eagle GT and CSC2 at low speed, similar to the ExtremeContactDWS but with much better precision at low speed, at higher speeds (60+ and only took it to 90 twice today) this tire retains the granularity of steering input control of the CSC2 at every point of its life (one of many reasons why I love it and recommend it to anyone not regularly autoXing or "tracking" it) with the relaxed personality of the DWS. The Eagle GT falls somewhere in the middle in this regard

does not bump steer nearly as bad as the conti's and superior to the Eagle GT. Best tires I have had yet on this car in that sense.

The only unsetling thing is I really enjoyed those last few thousand miles on the stocker CSC2 @nearly 3/32" and the feel of new tires have tread while hard cornering is always a bit of an adjustment. Unfortunately they do not overcome the phsyics of 10/32 tread height.
I am really mystified by the numbers the Tire rack came up with for this tire's performance. According to my steno pad of notes on G's held in various corners, and other performance data the DWS not only felt worse and much more pedestrian "ought to be on a minivan" type of tire my numbers say from brand new it is kicking the DWS's ass. I can only figure the tire rack is using the same set of DWS for testing that have undergone extensive testing by them and it has it tread mold breaking grease well worn off while the Eagle F1 Asymmetric All Season had the slicking solution still on the tread for their tests.

These tires also have amazingly very little deformation at the contact patch Unlike the Eagle GT, Extreme Contact DWS, and CSC2 (less so than the preceding) it maintains, so far a nearly perfectly round shape even under the load from the front tires.

I really like the looks of these on the TC wheels at stock sizing. Look nice and meaty like the GT and CSC2 and very much unlike the Extreme Contact DWS.

That sums up what I gathered in what is now 100 miles. Haven't even worn off the mold break compound.... I think I am gonna love the next 45K all season miles

rchiwawa

After putting on another 150 miles through the worst highway and streets I frequent I can say that these tires have completely eliminated bump steer and have further reduced what I consider to be the minimal torque steer of the car. No more bumping around on i-5 northbound in Federal Way, WA. Car is much less prone to any wheel spin within daily driven stop and turn intersections with my nominal throttle input that could yield slight wheel spin on any of the three previously used tires. From a dead stop and when I did break it loose at a T intersection turning right from a stop, it retained its super sweet'n'svelte break and resync with the road and required significantly more throttle input than what would typically set the tire(s) spinning.

*update 9-27-2012: Still quite thrilled with the performance but it is worth noting that they are slightly noisier new than either of the Continentals at end of life when it is 70 degrees or warmer out when the tires themselves are warm.Nothing cracking the window or turning the radio on doesn't cure. They are near silent even when warm is the temperature is 60 or below. When the tires are cold and it is 70 and warmer they gradually start making more noise as you drive further. Measured peak variance on the same stretch of in town road is 2-3db (same android phone that logged the noise ceiling for the Conti's) when warm and 1 db quieter cold on said stretch and 2db on the highway.

*update 10-7-2012: No rain in the PNW since buying the tires. As it turns out most of the noise was an improperly balanced wheel. just under 1500 miles and the noise tradeoff is well worth the gain is traction and deletion of bump steer over the previously rans. Noise has been increasing the past few days.

*update 10-9-2012 After 250 miles driven since the rebalance (an ounce short and 90degrees off according to the tech who did the rebalance) the tire's noise gradually dropped off. I never measured the slow to eventually unacceptable level rise in "road noise" so the previously logged numbers are accurate for my facilities to measure.

rchiwawa

Keeping it brief i have now 4,000 miles on these tires. The tread depth is still a solid 10/32 despite some serious punishment. I am going to do line breaks for the bullet points on my thoughts to date.

These tires have completely eliminated bump steer on my car.

Superior traction all around, especially wet launching and wet lateral grip.

Amazing rigidity of sidewalls and ride comfort considering the performance, stiffness

If you like cornering hard a lot these tires will generate a boat-load of noise when you take it to the outer tread blocks. I can not prepare you for how much noise by writing about it. Despite the noise, the outer tread reads almost perfectly in line with the rest of the tire but if you corner hard, it will take a hundred or so miles to right the balance. IF you keep doing it the noise gets severely worse but they lose no grip laterally or in acceleration and braking duty. They will simply groan or even howl at you until you even them out by nominal driving.

These tires are the MOST responsive, QUICKEST reacting, yet MOST relaxed tire in personality (when driving normally) I have driven on this car and to date in general. The level of control and predictability thereto is another thing words fail to describe.

Hydroplaning resistance is excellent but considering the depth this is to be expected. They do have a similar but much less obvious feedback for water depth that the Eagle GT features.

Wet performance is just stunning. This tire in the wet is better than the three tires I mentioned in the first review dry. Gets slightly better when dry but I bought this to get me through the winter just in case I get caught in my car and not my truck.

Money well spent. I VERY probably would buy them again but the noise punishment for hard cornering and my 100 mile/day commute gives me enough pause to not say definitely. The driving feel is exemplary, the noise when you corner too hard too much leaves something to be desired. it does go away after a hundred or so miles of safe-n-sane

If the spectre of snow is slight and you want maximum control in an all season that kicks the CSC2's ass in every way imaginable these are a solid buy.

rchiwawa

reserved for last review

rchiwawa

bump

rchiwawa

Just had these tires through some shallow and soft slush on the roadway at in town and highway speeds and they track'n'grip like a champ. Much better subjective feel than the Extreme Contact DWS on similar slush. It felt like the tires were just cutting through the slush as opposed to floating and occasionally sinking into it. No real accumulations of snow yet this season.

The very next morning (after writing the above for TireRack)the first ten miles of my commute featured light snow. Varying from 1 to 3 inches both fresh and compacted, in town and highway travel. These tires maintained very good to excellent traction and control in snow. A notoroious corner on my way to accessing the highway is a tight radiused descent with a stop sign at the "t" intersection. This corner is a 4x4 widow maker and every time the weather gets iffy it seems a half dozen suvs get sacrificed to the ---s as a ward from more accumulation. Everyone can have some trouble here and it's the only place i ever really get uncomfortable. The Goodyear Eagle F1 asymmetrics did as well as the Continental extreme contact dws did. At highway speeds in fresh shallow snow the grip was consistently very good overall and excellent in feel. 50mph in fresh 3" powder was appropriate and hard braking yielded better than could be asked for results in evenness of abs actuation, stopping distance, and steerability while braking (all applies to both fresh and compacted wet-ish snow). Honestly, these tires are subjectively better to me than the DWS in everything but pure ice performance and that advantage, to me is relegated to superficial feel and only is garbage conditions you might otherwise park your Cobalt for and opt to drive your 4x4.

An excellent all around tire.

rchiwawa

Almost forgot to add when rotated @ 7000 miles the fronts (before rotation) were closer to 9/32 than 10/32 and the rears were for all intents and purposes 10/32 depth

LS6Rally

iTrader: (14)

nice job on the tire review.just thinking out loud, is the outside dia. of these tires greater than the DWS's? could that have helped eliminate the bumpsteer?

rchiwawa

You know, the Cobalt is the first car I have ever owned that had any discernible bump steer and the also rans when I went shopping for a DD had bump steer as well so I chalked it up to the steering and suspension configuration for a performance car. Also, every tire I have had on it previously had bump steer to some degree, the DWS get rather severe in that sense late stages of life.

In comparing all four tires I have had on the car to date on Tire Rack, it is stated that all four are 25.1" overall diameter but Tire Rack's "revs per mile" stat shows as 828 for the Continentals and 833 for the Goodyear rubber. So I suppose they are a smidge "shorter" than the immediately preceding DWSes. I can tell you this much, at the stock size they at least look wide enough to be on the wheel which is something I couldn't say for the DWS. They looked like they narrowed/tapered to the top and to me, had a "stretched" aesthetic that I didn't care for. The F1 Assy AS look much more authoritative on the wheel and on the car.

rchiwawa

With just under 40k miles driven, the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric tires are gone. I got lazy (really lazy) about rotating the tires in the last 15k miles and when i was in for an oil change, they asked me if I wanted to rotate or replace the front pair. They were @ 3/32 and 4/32 (drivers and passenger side respectively.

If I had known they were that low I wouldn't have gone driving around in 4 inches of fresh snow through the Seattle area hills. These tires, that low maintained good drive-ability and could hold .25g by the RPD's reckoning. Considering the tires were for all intents and purposes were shot I am very impressed.

These tires really excel in providing great traction and control in all conditions. I just have to take another shot at the Continental Extreme Contact DWS. They are ****, especially when compared to Eagles where wet and dry handling are concerned. The Eagles at end of life weren't quite as good as the conti's were on bare asphalt ice patches but the difference is negligible and with low tread levels, the Eagles are superior compacted and fresh snow tires.

The Eagle F1 Asymmetric All Seasons weren't without fault. I have only had the replacement Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3 tires on the car for about 250 miles but so far I can say that they are seriously less "busy and nervous" in feel and composure. The f1's never had a great on center feel and considering how dead flat on center feels while being just as nimble, for driving feel the Pilots definitely win out. Enough on the Pilots until I get 1000 miles on them (next weekend ).

The Eagle F1 Asymetrics retained excellent traction and noise levels in all conditions through out their lives. They easily were the hands down best tires I had had on the car for any condition and the margin that they whipped the OEM CSC2 tires really highlights to me mind the amount of progress made in scant few years where tire technology and what can be achieved, especially for an all season. If these are a compromise I am disappointed I am missing out because of the uber temperate nature of the Seattle/Puget Sound area as it never gets cold enough to justify snows and rarely gets warm long enough to warrant a nice summer set.

If you are looking at all seasons and want no compromise, the Eagle F1 ASymmetric and price is a factor at all, I recommend nothing else. After I get enough miles on the Pilot Sport A/S 3s to know, I'll spell out why the documented trade offs (yes there are a few obvious trade offs between the two) make them not worth the premium charged in the United States. A Canadian pal of mine informed me for his tire size the Eagle F1 Asymmetric All Seasons were commanding a 75% price premium over the A/S 3. Right now on TireRack, for our stock size, the Eagles are going for $132 per tire not factoring in shipping or the $80 mail in rebate Goodyear is offering while the Pilot Sport A/S 3 is selling for $185 per tire and no rebate.

Priced the vs. the Pilot Sport A/s 3, I couldn't choose knowing what I know and have experienced behind the wheel. If for anything less, I'd say the F1 Asymmetric is the no-brainer choice. Especially if snow is a consideration since they were great when essentially on the wear bars and had I bothered rotating them, I would have put 50k miles before 2/32 tread depth

rchiwawa

I replaced these tires with Michlen Pilot Sport AS3s while the temperatures were still reasonably cold in the Seattle area. after 5k miles on the Michelins I can tell you the main differences between the Goodyear F1 Asymmetric All Seasons and the Pilot Sport AS3s are as follows.

The Goodyears are much better all around tires (referring to traction/available grip) when cold. Especially dry and cold.

Once the outside temperature is at least 70F the Michelins are much better all around tires in the same sense, especially wet and warm.

The Michelin Pilot Sport AS3s are always noisier tires in comparison. They generally are running 3 db louder in a given scenario vs the goodyears. The tread wear seems to be comparable 5k miles into life but I am just getting into the warm season. Rears before rotation are still at 11/32 depth, the fronts are dead on @ 10/32.

To summarize it I would advise you to get the Michelins if you probably will never encounter snow or freezing temperatures and are in a warmer climate. If freezing and snow are realistic in your future but not to the point of warranting snow tires the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetrics will get you where you are going even if far along in the lives. The Michelins are iffy enough @ 40F to where I doubt they'd be helpful on snow, even new.

toolman

I'm nearing the end of my second set of Eagle GT tires, and I've been considering the Eagle F1 tires for my next set. Would you consider the F1 a worthwhile upgrade over the GT? I've been very happy with the Eagle GT tires. I also drive 100 miles each day and we get considerable amounts of snow and freezing temperatures in Minnesota, but I don't want to get a dedicated set of snow tires.

doc@tirerack

Thanks for the feedback ! The Goodyear did fairly well against comparable tires from Michelin and Bridgestone in our last test as well (see results here)

importkiller

iTrader: (1)

I went from the Continental DWS to these. These are a much better tire. I have about 2k miles on them so far and they are much firmer without sacrificing all-season performance.

kzak104

iTrader: (1)

lol how do tires stop bumpsteer, and how do you have bumpsteer at that ride height... i have never experienced bump steer.... even on coils... if you are in fact getting bump steer get rack spacers.....

rchiwawa

You know, I only once had Eagle GTs on snowy/icy conditions but my memory of that instance is not favorable of the Eagle GT's performance.

The Pilot Sport AS3s have never been on icy or snow since I bought them. Guessing from their behavoir in cold conditions, wet or dry (less than 40 degrees F) I wouldn't guess them to be in the same league of the Eagle F1 Asymmetrics or Extreme Contact DWS. THey stiffen right up and my mind everytime thought Iwas rolling on summer tires instead of all seasons. THe DWS is an esepcially poor warm weather tire IMO while the F1 Asym does quite good in that regard and is essentially its peer in frozen stuff.

Warm, the Pilots are much better feeling and grippy tire by my RPD. The Goodyears are quieter while the driving is less hectic on the Michelin.

Simply put, if freezing precipitation is a possibility you'd rather not buy a dedicated set of summer and winter tires for while not disregarding snow's (real)possibility I'd say go for the Eagle F1 Asymmetric All Seasons. They were solid on compacted snow and ice despite being on the wear bars. If you don't want or need to account for snow why look at all seasons
I couldn't agree more except for a neglible amount of bite on ice.




You know... reading through some tires and suspension stuff icame across the correct term for following ruts in the road at speed. You are right, it is a nomenclature error on my part. Care to give me the right term?




Sorry it took a couple few weeks longer to get back here than intended.