K Matt, I'll probably drop it to 43.5psi since that is what the injectors are rated at.

All of the tuning documentation I've read suggest a flat injector flow rating, why keep a slope with your setup?

 

I would not call it PCM programming advice. More of instructions stating "If you do it the way we tell you to it will work."

 

ZZP, please contact me about replacing my regulator...

The regulator is certainly bad. I tried adjusting the fuel pressure to a lower value, and the regulator will not adjust the pressure now below 64 psi base pressure (not even with the screw the entire way out!). That does not sound correct in the least bit since the car was running fine sine last night on 58psi base pressure. This screwy fuel pressure deal is a symptom I have been exhibiting since the begining...

I reconnected the tank, canister, ZZP unit, EVAP, etc lines, several times last night and each time the the fuel pressure was different. I was very happy when I got the setup to finally work at 58psi. Now, I am back at square one... The regulator is the only thing I have modified today...

If it may make it easier on both of us, please tell me which car this OEM regulator came off of so that I may purchase the part on my own. I have asked you about it several times now without an answer. If not please contact me about a replacement. All I need is the regulator body, which can easily be swapped out with a pair of snap ring pliers. I will need it ASAP, so I guess I'll need to look into overnight shipping if I can not source it locally.

Thank you.

 

I really wish you would have left the regulator alone. They rarely fail, if ever. If you want to purchase a new one from us, just contact one of us and ask to purchase a new one. Posting in a thread that you want one of us to contact you is not the best course of action.

 

Matt, I tried contacting ZZP by email and phone yesterday, and I got no return. Both you and Zooomer responded to my questions in this thread the entire time, so it is only rational to think this is a way to contact customer support.

I don't want to purchase a new regulator, I'd like a *replacement* under warranty. The kit is advertised as a boost referenced adjustable setup, and mine is not working as intended. The regulator will get 'stuck' at various points and the car will run a weird fuel presssure. I am currently stuck at 80psi. I only tried to go back to the 42psi 'stock' pressure because you suggested I do so earlier...

I'll gladly pay shipping costs for your trouble. If I can source the part locally, I'll purchase one local, as I've said several times before. The regulator looks like the one off a 01-03 Monte Carlo and various other GM vehicles. If the part is cheap enough from ZZP, we might be able to work something out for the troubles.

You cannot however expect to stick the customer in a situation. You may sit around and speculate all day long on the failure rate of your regulators, but that does not answer the question of why mine is not working. As I've stated before I complied with the suggestions you provided, and nothing worked until by chance it started working. That to me seems like an intermittant problem. The regulator is now 'sticking' at various points and not adjusting like it should, indicating a bad regulator assembly.

Thank you

 

Not saying this is ZZP's fault, or your problem...

But people are buying this kit as an alternative to OTTP's return style. So 90% of the customers are going to want to adjust fuel pressure. Especially the E85 guys. If simply adjusting the regulator apparently "ruins" it, then why put an adjustable on it? There are plenty of non-adjustable regulators you could of chose to use instead. Not to mention it seems like every regulator you send out is preset with a different base pressure. I know my two were, and one other from another member.

With that said, I adjusted pressure manually on mine and so far it seems fine. I don't have a fuel pressure gauge in the cabin, but I am getting enough fuel for what I need. Your kit works fine in my case.

 

I had an email conversation with Zooomer through the main ZZP customerservice@zzperformance.com email discussing my plans for adjusting the regualtor to run a higher pressure. Zooomer informed me about some injector settings, but said nothing about the regulator not working well with adjusting it for higher pressure.

I would never have purchased the kit knowing I may run into problems with adjusting fuel pressure...

My regulator is not working as intended. It is actually not working at all as it is stuck at an improper setting. I can deal with a lower pressure of the 42 or 43.5psi, as I am not running E85 yet to justify the higher base pressure, however I can not deal with a non-functioning car.

Please inform of what you can do to assist me in this matter. I can be contacted by phone, email, forums, etc. Thank you.

 

Bump!

Looking to try and pickup a new regulator today, anyone know what model it comes off of? There's a part number on top for anyone who hasn't installed theres yet and can help me...

 

I'm having trouble following you. A couple days ago, I said to send it in and we would warranty it if it is faulty, no problem. Yesterday, you said that you want to purchase a new one. I responded about purchasing a new one, but then you responded back that you don't want to purchase one, that you want a warranty replacement. Then your last post says that you want to purchase a new one.

 

Matt. I was simply indicating that I wanted a new regulator, and that I wasn't going to purchase a new one. I am also not going to rip apart my car and send you the kit back, while my car is down either, or I have to drop the tank again to go back to stock.

I spoke with Ryan today and he was able to help me out. Thanks.

 

Ok, glad he could help. I'm thinking that you were confusing warranty with free parts to help you troubleshoot. Warranty means that you send in parts and they get repaired or replaced if they are found to be defective. Sending out new parts for customers to try out isn't the same thing as a warranty.

 

Matt, I wasn't asking for a handout, but selectively sending some 'free parts' to some people, some times, doesn't look so good either... I would have gladly paid a core charge, paid for shipping, and shipped back the 'bad' part(s) on my dime. I wasn't however going to send you in my 'bad' part so you could confirm it was 'bad', and then had 2+ weeks of down time on my car while all that was in limbo.

It's all water under the bridge now. I'll just be happy when the car is back up and running. The car definitely did idle better and seemed 'smoother', so the kit does work.

ZZP makes some good and innovative parts, and without that I would have no reason to buy them.

 

The problem with 'helping' customers is that they are their own worst enemy many times.

In this market we make parts that work but you have to listen to us and don't try to make something better or change how we recommend doing things unless you are very knowledged and advanced.

ZZP fought for 6 months in this market simply trying to convince people that nothing magic happens when you return the fuel all the way. Another month was spent debating about the tube diameter of the stock rail. Another month debating about fuel pumps. It just gets annoying because there's just a flood of misinformed unknowledged people making what we're trying to do very, very hard. IT's kept the community slow and overpaying for mods.

In this particular case, we had a customer who didn't do the install properly. Furthermore the information received about the job wasn't clear. But having 100psi from the stock regulator, we knew it wasn't bypassed. This is clue #1 the customer is inexperienced. 2nd the customer states that the regulator wasn't lowering the fuel pressure. This isn't true as regulators can only restrict fuel, not lower pressure. 3rd was me asking to have the sytem run w/o our piece installed and the customer says "why?". I don't care for this. It makes assisting more difficult. All in all we knew we were dealing with someone very inexperienced with fuel systems.

This part has been sold for some time now and most people have problems with it or think they do. It falls on misunderstanding or a bad install. Never once has a part been bad. I stated in the other thread I'd send a new regulator but i'm sure it isn't bad. Guess what? It wasn't bad. In this case, we'll do the same simply to show the community that we have good customer service but you guys need to start listening more and experimenting less.

The reason you don't adjust the regulator and we set them where we do is complicated. I can go into detail if someone needs be, but most people won't know what I'm talking about. But the bottom line is that you need to just listen, do what we say and follow in a proven successful path or you will have problems. This means DO NOT ADJUST THE UNIT unless you are extremely advanced. I have yet to see anyone on the forum at this point (when using option 2)

 

Typical Zooomer response. I'll hold my tongue...

If the system isn't meant to be adjustable, don't market it to compete with the OTTP return style system, and don't include an (OEM fuel rail) adjustable regualator. Problem solved.

Your regulators are adjusted using air pressure, so when the customer gets it, the base pressure often varies (sometimes as high as 10psi) when it is hooked to the car. That to me seems like a problem, when you need to accurately model your injector flow ratings at a certain fuel pressure in the tune. Your method of adjusting the injector flow rating slope does not correspond to how most everyone tunes a return style system. They often use a flat value for the injector flow rating. If you intend to sell regulators preset at a certain pressure, then you need to specify the proper parameters to tune, or at the very least give some sort of advice or tutorial. It isn't up to the community to 'guess' how to use ZZP's parts.

There is very little publicly shared about this kit, and that is a simple fact. There is TONS of misinformation floating around about the kit because it isn't in a huge useage (yet), and people get questions that are answered poorly. If you want to stop the fight against you in this market, being humble and helping out would sure go a long way... Write one of your tech articles, write a FAQ, whatever you want. It would certainly help in making this product sell. If people understood that they could get all of these benefits from the system at such a low price, I'm thinking more people would jump on it...

I saw the continued fights against this kit vs a return style long ago... People will think what they think. Many of the others were wrong, and like you said, that proves that this kit is good. Which is why I bought it, certainly not for your cheerful rapport, and pleasant customer service skills. I would think you may find it beneficial to answer the questions of your paying customer before insulting them. Often times people will ask questions that they themselves may know, so that others may learn.

Ryan provided me good customer service and fantastic assistance today. I will likely shoot an email out to Eric and inform him of that.

Thanks for the help you gave as well Zoom and Matt.

I will simply be happy when my car runs again...

 

I can see both sides on this one.

On Zooomer's end, I am sure it get's annoying trying to talk to customers than have less experience than them. Also, customers that second guess their instructions and recommendations. I've worked with the public and customer service, and I will say it made me a generally "pissed off at the world" person daily. I hate people, seriously. I definitely know how quickly it gets old dealing with the same **** of people just disagreeing.

On the other side, you say returning fuel at the rail is useless, but yet you don't want customers to adjust fuel pressure on your kit because it won't work or will break... I don't get it. To be blunt, people are buying your kit so they can adjust fuel pressure, or else they would just keep the stock fuel system. Why does Ryan's car have a full return setup at the rail instead of the ZZP BRFS?

 

Our kit has never been marketed as a way to adjust your fuel pressure. It is sold as a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator. The advantages to having raised pressure under boost and decreased pressure under vacuum are easier tuning and the potential to supply fuel for more horsepower. Having these two qualities in the same system are quite valuable. The adjustment screw is there to pre-set the fuel pressure. The loctite is to keep it at this setting.

Furthermore, our kit can certainly be adjusted without any type of failure. We have done so many times. However, in this case, the customer had multiple issues and went about correcting them in a way that either caused his regulator to fail, or caused him to believe that it failed. Either way, I gaurantee that the regulator was not defective.

 

I still can't follow you on this. Did you want to purchase a regulator or did you want us to send you one for free? If you purchased one and sent the original back and it was bad, then it would be refunded(warranty). This was already offered. If you wanted us to send one for free, then it is in fact a handout.

It appears that you might be upset because we sent a previous customer a new regulator with no questions asked, but then asked for yours back. I'm sure you read that his regulator turned out to be fine. It makes it more difficult to justify sending out free parts the next time.

 

Not trying to intentionally start ****...

But why does Ryan run a full return kit with a fuel lab regulator as opposed to the ZZP setup?

I know the answer I am going to get will be "because it's Ryan's car and he will do what he wants", but is there an actual technical reason?

 

He ran the same setup that you have all last year and took it to 11.0 and 132mph trap speeds without any issues. His new setup is a prototype race setup. At 650+ HP, it's nice to have more versatility.

 

Often we don't provide information to avoid confusing the community. When we change pumps, and do custom fuel setups, our systems are going to respond and react quite a bit differently than anyone else's. We do our best to give what information is needed and leave out what is not because leaking a little bit nearly always leads to customer confusion and failures.

You don't need to 'guess' how to use the part. It's designed the opposite of that. With a fully adjustable setup you're guessing at a lot of things. With ours, we tell customers not to adjust it to remove a variable.

Some things that customers don't understand cause problems. For example all injectors flow differently. Sometimes a set will vary 3-4%, this means the PCM parameters have to change. Fuel pressure is going to vary based on mods and the individual car and the gauge used to read it. All this means final dial in has to be done custom on each car. We can't give extremely specific guidelines to tune, just a general idea of how it's supposed to be. Get you close, then you have to dial it in.

If people are buying units to adjust pressure, they probably need to change themselves, not the part. The benefits as Matt stated are lowering pressure at idle, raising at boost. Doesn't really matter if idle is 40 or 46. Under boost it will vary based on the amount of boost but as shipped most won't see over 70. I doubt anyone NEEDS to adjust fuel 1 or 2 psi. It wouldn't make sense. Most people thinking about adjusting things are going to try for 10 psi or something which is very bad. Someone with a stock pump or even certain models of Walbro are going to try for 80 psi under boost and run into severe problems, possibly blowing up their car. Rather than give a 1/2 hour tutorial to every customer and try and dial in their individual setup over email for the last 5% gain. We'd rather error on the side of safety, do what works, tell people not to adjust and give them 95% of the benefits effectively.

 

Thanks Zooomer, please give the community a general idea of how it's supposed to be so that we can better use your product. Tuning the system as a return style system, using this generally accepted method (How to tune for return fuel system. - HP Tuners Bulletin Board), utilizes a flat injector flow rating, so a moderately precise injector flow at a set fuel pressure must be know. If this is not the case with your system, and the fuel pressure is just to be whatever it is shipped at, then 'roughly' how does one tune for your setup? To my knowledge nobody has ever posted up this knowledge online. Is a pressure gauge even needed, or do we trust that the pressure can be whatever?

 

So if I was to order this, and run it with my setup of 80's and E85, can I ask you to set it at 50/58/60psi..etc.? Save both the hassle

 

I was told the regulator comes about 60psi from their source and that they set it to ~42 with air pressure. I've heard of people getting ~40-50psi on theirs though, so there seems to be some variation.

You tune, how would you setup a system like this? Isn't the point of a system like this to remove the 'vacuum slope' of the injector flow in the PCM and let the regulator do the work?

 

I have not tuned a return-style or BRFS. Hence why I am following this thread and a few others. I have no personal experience with it

Take that back, I believe the twincharge car had their BRFS. I'll check that file.

 

Negative. Fuel tables are setup for 60's